Author Topic: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed  (Read 14671 times)

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Offline cyberdraven

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An old thread but worth sharing from Alan Lofft...

As audio/video hobbyists, most of us grew up thinking that if we have an amplifier with 50 watts of rated output power into 8-ohm speakers, and that combination produces reasonably clean and loud music, then by doubling the amplifier power to 100 watts per channel, the system would then play twice as loud. Many readers likely still believe that. Not so.

Although it's not the easiest thing to comprehend, doubling the amplifier power does not double the loudness. In the above example, the sound from the speakers would not be "twice as loud"; it would only be "a little louder," an increase of 3 decibels. How loud is that? Hearing tests with large groups of people have revealed that a one-decibel (1 dB) change in loudness is approximately the smallest audible step that the average listener can detect, so an increase of 3 dB most listeners term "slightly louder."

So why doesn't that 100-watt amplifier always sound twice as loud? Because the acoustic decibel--the decibel (dB) being the unit of measurement used worldwide to quantify the acoustic loudness of sound--has a peculiar relationship to amplifier power output measured in electrical watts. That relationship is called "logarithmic." If that word gives you an instant headache (nightmares of high-school math), then here's a simpler explanation:

If a sound gets louder by 3 decibels or "slightly louder," it takes twice as much electrical power from your receiver or amp to produce that modest increase. Therefore, a 100-watt amplifier will produce sound only slightly louder than a 50-watt amplifier.
Incidentally, if you'd like a kind of immortality, be terribly clever and work out a system of measurement. It may be named after you. The "decibel," one tenth of a bel and named for BellAlexander Graham Bell, recognizes his contributions to the understanding of sound. Likewise, we have to thank James Watt, Georg Simon Ohm, and Heinrich Hertz for their contributions to the industry. And then there's the Lofft, a measurement of neighbors' tolerance to testing new speaker systems . . .

So far, so good. But what if it's party time, and you're listening to music "very loud," a level defined as about 90 dB Sound Pressure Level (SPL), and your speakers are gobbling up swings of 15 to 20 watts per channel on those musical peaks.

Drink in hand, you advance to the volume control on your receiver thinking, "I'll just crank this up to make the music twice as loud," and you turn up the volume control until there's a 10 dB increase in the sound level. Now your party-time goal of "twice as loud" will make huge electrical demands on your nice little multi-channel receiver or power amp. The receiver must deliver ten times as much power to double the subjective loudness. Between 6 dB and 10 dB is double the volume level, where 6 dB is four times the power and 10 dB is 10 times the power. In the aforementioned example, the amp must produce 150 to 200 watts per channel for those peaks in loudness. Therefore, every 10-dB increase in acoustic loudness--from 80 dB to 90 dB, or 90 dB to 100 dB--requires ten times as much electrical power in watts.

That's all very well if you have a monster amplifier or multi-channel A/V receiver with huge reserves of power output (most of us don't). If not, watch out. Your receiver or amp may "clip" or distort (or both), which will put a clamp on the output of the amp. When you push your amplifier into overload or "clipping," several things may happen. First, the top and bottom of the waveforms (representing the audio signals) are clipped off, generating distortion. Next, the amplifier's protection circuits are activated, removing those portions of the signal that are causing the overload, generating distortion. And finally, the amplifier's power supply may fluctuate according to the demands of the music signals.

Not everyone is affected by this scenario, of course. Some people (increasingly few, it seems) don't listen to loud music. They like background levels, and with average speakers, background levels demand 1 watt or less of amplifier power. Or they may have very efficient speakers (Klipsch, Cerwin-Vega, Tannoy, and the like) that will play extremely loud using modest amplifiers, the trade-off being a very large degradation in tonal accuracy, a definite harshness, and a complete loss of off-axis performance that accompanies horn-loaded designs. But in many situations, speakers will be damaged and distorted sound will offend many ears.

No discussion of decibels, acoustic loudness, and electrical watts is complete without an explanation of loudspeaker "sensitivity." (Another way to define a speaker's sensitivity is to look at how efficiently the speaker converts electrical power, in watts, to acoustic sound output in decibels.) Let it be said in a general way that speakers are not very efficient or sensitive devices. They need a lot of electrical power input to produce relatively little acoustic output. Nevertheless, speakers do vary quite a bit in sensitivity.

To determine a speaker's sensitivity, we feed the speaker with 1 watt of amplifier power, using a test signal of pink noise, and measure in decibels how loud the sound is at a distance of 1 meter (about 3 feet). A lot of domestic hi-fi speakers measure in at about 89 or 90 dB SPL at 1 meter. Larger speakers, with bigger woofers and more drivers, typically produce greater acoustic output; smaller bookshelf models have to work harder, and their output is typically less, often between 86 and 88 dB SPL at 1 meter.

Placing the speaker in a room helps (the walls, ceiling, and floor reflect and reinforce the speaker's sound), adding about 4 dB to its output. For example, a speaker like Axiom's M80ti has a measured sensitivity in an anechoic chamber of 91 dB SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter. But putting the M80ti in a room raises its sensitivity rating to 95 dB SPL at 1 watt, 1 meter. A 95-dB sound level happens to be "very loud," as most of us would subjectively describe it. And it is--from 3 feet (1 meter) in front of the speaker. But let's move our listening seat back twice as far, to 6 feet. Guess what happens? We instinctively know that sound gets weaker as the distance from the source is increased, but by how much? A formula called the "inverse square law" tells us that when the distance from the source is doubled, the sound pressure weakens by 6 dB. Among sound engineers, there's a common saying: "6 dB per distance double." So at a 6-ft. distance, the M80ti is now producing 89 dB. Now let's double that distance again to 12 feet, a fairly common listening distance. The speaker now produces 83 dB, which isn't all that loud at all. And if you sat 24 feet away, a not uncommon distance in big rooms, the speaker would produce 77 dB SPL.

But what about stereo, I hear you shout. Here's another oddity of loudness and the decibel. When one speaker is producing a level of 90 dB, adding a second speaker playing at the same level only increases the overall loudness by 3 dB! (The loudness does not double!). So the two speakers in stereo produce a loudness level of 93 dB.

So adding a second M80ti will raise the loudness at 12 feet from 83 dB to 86 dB. And don't forget we're still using 1 watt of amplifier power output into Axiom's most sensitive speaker. But how loud are real-life instruments, orchestras and rock bands? Now, while 86 dB SPL is "fairly loud," it's not nearly as loud as what you might hear from a good seat at an actual rock concert or from an orchestra or pianist in a concert hall. A solo grand piano can reach peak levels of 109 dB SPL, a full orchestra and chorus in a concert hall will measure 106 dB, and a rock group, 120 dB SPL. Now let's try and get our peak speaker sound levels to 96 dB, "twice as loud" as our 86-dB listening level. That isn't that difficult because right now we're only using 1 watt per channel to drive the M80ti's to 86 dB. So we'll need ten times as much power, or 10 watts, to reach 96 dB. Big deal. We've got lots more.

But things begin to change, and rather dramatically. Let's push the M80ti's to what we might experience from a solo grand piano, 109 dB. We're at 96 dB with 10 watts per channel. Let's go to 106 dB. So that requires 10 x 10, or 100 watts. Close, but not quite there yet. Just 3 dB more. Remember, we have to double the power for a 3-dB increase in sound level. So 100 watts becomes 200 watts. Yikes! Our receiver has only 110 watts maximum output! We've run out of amplifier power! And what about the rock concert? Let's lower our expectations and aim for 119 dB. Going from 109 dB SPL, which needs 200 watts per channel, to 119 dB SPL (get out your ear plugs) is another 10-dB jump and--you do the math--that requires 10 x 200, or 2,000 watts per channel!

From all this you can see the huge power requirements inherent in reproducing real-life acoustic sound levels in average or big rooms. The M80ti's are tested to levels of 1,200 watts of input power so they come very close. But the truth is that if we are seeking real-life acoustic sound levels in our listening rooms, there's a very persuasive argument for very large, powerful amplifiers. And if your speakers are less sensitive (and many are), then the power demands rise even more dramatically. Sizeable rooms and greater listening distances will also increase power demands tremendously.

And what many of us don't realize until we hear it, is that clean undistorted loud sound often does not sound that "loud." The key here is that in most or our home listening, there are small amounts of distortion caused by a lack of dynamic headroom (but more on that next month). It's the distortion that makes it sound "loud" in a domestic setting. To remove those distortions and increase dynamic headroom relates to even more power. We've become accustomed to accepting some distortion with our reproduced music, because all amplifier's distortion ratings gradually increase as they approach their output limits or slightly clip the audio signals. When that happens, we turn down the volume, because distortion starts to intrude on our listening pleasure, and it sounds "too loud."

The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels. The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #1 on: Sep 25, 2014 at 04:18 PM »
IMHO, the easiest way to understand this topic is to have the basic understanding of how the human ear behaves and reacts with perceived sound. Physics also tells us that for every doubling of acoustical energy, there is a 3dB increase. But that doesn't mean the perceived sound doubles, in fact, it is just barely loud.

Everyone knows (from elementary school) that the part of the ear that pick's up and reacts to sound is the ear drum and study shows that this part of our body works logarithmically. More importantly, it shows that our ears follow the base 10 logarithmic scale in perceived sound.

So what does this mean? It means that even if an amp can produce a 3dB increase in power (i.e. 50W vs 100W), the human ear interprets this as just "slightly louder". Since our ears seems to work logarithmically and plots closely to a base 10 logarithmic scale, what it actually needs is to have the amp produce 10 times the amount of acoustic power to make us perceive a doubling in loudness or a mere 10dB.

So if you have a 1W amp and want to hear double the perceived sound you'll need about 10 times that or 10W of acoustic energy.

J

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #2 on: Oct 07, 2014 at 07:18 PM »
Isama mo na din dito yun sensitivity issue wherein people sometimes think na sensitive speakers require lesser power. pero madalas, it sometimes doesn't apply. At 97db at 1 watt, ok siya pero when you crank it up, yun mga 8 ohms most often bumababa din to 4-6 ohms especially the woofers.

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #3 on: Oct 07, 2014 at 09:00 PM »
IIRC, the IEC standard of specifying nominal loudspeaker impedance is set such that the minimum impedance must not fall below 80% of nominal.

So for an 8 ohm speaker this would be 6.4 ohms minimum, and for 4 ohms would be 3.2 ohms. This information is usually presented by a graph of Impedance Vs Frequency which is a useful tool for speaker system manufacturers and diyers.

Offline deist

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #4 on: Oct 07, 2014 at 09:20 PM »
+1

Iba talaga mga paliwanag mo brader, uncomplicated. you're explaining it to me like I'm a four-year-old  ;)

IIRC, the IEC standard of specifying nominal loudspeaker impedance is set such that the minimum impedance must not fall below 80% of nominal.

So for an 8 ohm speaker this would be 6.4 ohms minimum, and for 4 ohms would be 3.2 ohms. This information is usually presented by a graph of Impedance Vs Frequency which is a useful tool for speaker system manufacturers and diyers.

IMHO, the easiest way to understand this topic is to have the basic understanding of how the human ear behaves and reacts with perceived sound. Physics also tells us that for every doubling of acoustical energy, there is a 3dB increase. But that doesn't mean the perceived sound doubles, in fact, it is just barely loud.

Everyone knows (from elementary school) that the part of the ear that pick's up and reacts to sound is the ear drum and study shows that this part of our body works logarithmically. More importantly, it shows that our ears follow the base 10 logarithmic scale in perceived sound.

So what does this mean? It means that even if an amp can produce a 3dB increase in power (i.e. 50W vs 100W), the human ear interprets this as just "slightly louder". Since our ears seems to work logarithmically and plots closely to a base 10 logarithmic scale, what it actually needs is to have the amp produce 10 times the amount of acoustic power to make us perceive a doubling in loudness or a mere 10dB.

So if you have a 1W amp and want to hear double the perceived sound you'll need about 10 times that or 10W of acoustic energy.

J
« Last Edit: Oct 07, 2014 at 09:23 PM by deist »

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #5 on: Oct 07, 2014 at 10:08 PM »
Wala naman makikinabang kapag in these lines ang explanation brader... ;D



IMHO, understanding the concept is critical, it can be a nosebleed at some point so I try to present it as simple as possible.

However, it will also be a mistake to just dispense with the science because doing so would be like a blind person trying to land an airplane. To a non-flyer, pwede, but can you imagine what the reaction will be if you tell a frequent-flyer person that the pilot is blind? ;D


Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #6 on: Oct 07, 2014 at 10:25 PM »
Paano yung madalas na ma-encounter sa isang usapan na 500watts ang amp nya at  kakabitan daw ng 1000watts na speaker para malakas ang tunog....   >:D

at marami pa ganyan.... ;D ;D ;D
Anthem CD1
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Theta Dac
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Offline deist

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #7 on: Oct 07, 2014 at 11:39 PM »
Korek! Kapag ganyan ang explanation e malamang reglahin ako haha

Wala naman makikinabang kapag in these lines ang explanation brader... ;D



IMHO, understanding the concept is critical, it can be a nosebleed at some point so I try to present it as simple as possible.

However, it will also be a mistake to just dispense with the science because doing so would be like a blind person trying to land an airplane. To a non-flyer, pwede, but can you imagine what the reaction will be if you tell a frequent-flyer person that the pilot is blind? ;D

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #8 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:55 AM »
IIRC, the IEC standard of specifying nominal loudspeaker impedance is set such that the minimum impedance must not fall below 80% of nominal.

So for an 8 ohm speaker this would be 6.4 ohms minimum, and for 4 ohms would be 3.2 ohms. This information is usually presented by a graph of Impedance Vs Frequency which is a useful tool for speaker system manufacturers and diyers.

Thanks tukayo. Na-confuse lang ako siguro sa specs. Eto kasi yun sample ko:

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bw-683-surround-speaker-system-measurements

Quote
Model 683
Minimum impedance: 3.5Ω at 100Hz
Nominal impedance: 6Ω (below 6Ω from 78Hz to 900Hz)

Hindi ko nakita yun scope ng frequency range.

Offline edison

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #9 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 08:33 AM »
Paano yung madalas na ma-encounter sa isang usapan na 500watts ang amp nya at  kakabitan daw ng 1000watts na speaker para malakas ang tunog....   >:D

at marami pa ganyan.... ;D ;D ;D
Tama ka Bro.,may mga ganyan nga sa everyday life na usapan. Pag pumunta ka kasi sa Raon puro gigantic watts ang mga maririnig mo na specs ng mga amplifier at speakers...,idagdag mo pa yung mga car amplifier specs na thousand of watts na usapan. But in reality, in a home set-up..,we need only a few several watts of acoustic power to drive our hi-fi speakers in a manner that we can tolerate the level at our listening pleasures. Minsan naman gusto natin malakas, depende siguro sa mood at preference.

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #10 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 09:35 AM »
Thanks tukayo. Na-confuse lang ako siguro sa specs. Eto kasi yun sample ko:

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bw-683-surround-speaker-system-measurements

Hindi ko nakita yun scope ng frequency range.

Tinignan ko yun sample mo tukayo. It would be a predicament to "label" the 683 as a 4 ohms speaker system because the average impedance curves must have been way above the specified IEC 80% most of the time so it is tagged as a 6 ohms speaker. They were just honest to tell that it's minimum impedance of 3.5 ohms occurs at 100Hz.

The graph shown is SPL vs Frequency, you will notice that one of the highest points is at 100Hz where the speaker impedance is at it's minimum and draws the most power from the amp. This is just a momentary occurrence and would have a very low probability that the impedance stays there so any amp that can handle 4 ohm loads would be safe.


Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #11 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 09:43 AM »
Paano yung madalas na ma-encounter sa isang usapan na 500watts ang amp nya at  kakabitan daw ng 1000watts na speaker para malakas ang tunog....   >:D

at marami pa ganyan.... ;D ;D ;D


Sa Savemore grocery dito sa amin may appliance section na may for sale na amp 1000W per channel, sabi nun salesman bale 2000W yun kasi stereo pa. Pag kinabitan ng tig-1000W na speaker bale 4000W na daw lahat.

Tinanong ko baka malakas sa kuryente yan pag 4000W na lahat lahat? Sabi niya hindi naman daw kasi wala pa 100W ang total consumption.

Nagpasalamat ako at umalis na kasi tinatawag na ako ng asawa ko eh... ;D


Offline louie1

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #12 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 10:50 AM »
mga idol, tama ba na kung gusto ko ng malakas  even using a T-amp with 15w/ch, then I should use pro audio drivers  size 12"~18" 100db sensitivity? pambasag eardrum lang ba.. >:D hehehehe

Offline tony

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #13 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 10:53 AM »
i did not even realise na meron palang sikreto..... >:D >:D >:D
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #14 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 10:54 AM »
mga idol, tama ba na kung gusto ko ng malakas  even using a T-amp with 15w/ch, then I should use pro audio drivers  size 12"~18" 100db sensitivity? pambasag eardrum lang ba.. >:D hehehehe

it should be the finished box with the speakers installed...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #15 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 11:10 AM »
Tinignan ko yun sample mo tukayo. It would be a predicament to "label" the 683 as a 4 ohms speaker system because the average impedance curves must have been way above the specified IEC 80% most of the time so it is tagged as a 6 ohms speaker. They were just honest to tell that it's minimum impedance of 3.5 ohms occurs at 100Hz.

The graph shown is SPL vs Frequency, you will notice that one of the highest points is at 100Hz where the speaker impedance is at it's minimum and draws the most power from the amp. This is just a momentary occurrence and would have a very low probability that the impedance stays there so any amp that can handle 4 ohm loads would be safe.

I agree with you tukayo. yun momentary occurrence is what i meant tukayo when I said that minsan bumabagsak din ang impedance. And kung hindi capable ang amp, dun lumalabas ang distortion. You nailed it tukayo!

Offline tony

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #16 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 11:18 AM »
that is why, it is important to know limits of your amp in relation to your speakers,
distortions can be avoided...and that is no secret...;)
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline markcrenz

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #17 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:06 PM »
So if you have a 1W amp and want to hear double the perceived sound you'll need about 10 times that or 10W of acoustic energy.

Tama ka Bro.,may mga ganyan nga sa everyday life na usapan. Pag pumunta ka kasi sa Raon puro gigantic watts ang mga maririnig mo na specs ng mga amplifier at speakers...,idagdag mo pa yung mga car amplifier specs na thousand of watts na usapan. But in reality, in a home set-up..,we need only a few several watts of acoustic power to drive our hi-fi speakers in a manner that we can tolerate the level at our listening pleasures. Minsan naman gusto natin malakas, depende siguro sa mood at preference.

Linawin lang natin masters, amplifier power is not the same as acoustical power. Feed typical speakers with one watt and you get one milliwatt of acoustical power, maybe even less. Conversely one acoustical watt corresponds to 120 dB SPL, that's VERY loud, like operating a jackhammer with no ear protection. Movies played back at reference levels have only 105dB peaks, and most HT setups don't even have enough power to reproduce that.
Sent from my Pentium 166MMX using PS/2 keyboard

Offline tony

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #18 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:09 PM »
yes , an amp that dishes out 100 watts for example, only a few watts is actually converted to sound, the rest of the watts goes into heating the voice coil and moving the diaphragm...

Quote
The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels. The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels.

i agree with this.... ;)
having a car that can run 200km/per hour do not mean you will drive around town at that speed...
« Last Edit: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:14 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #19 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:35 PM »
Linawin lang natin masters, amplifier power is not the same as acoustical power. Feed typical speakers with one watt and you get one milliwatt of acoustical power, maybe even less. Conversely one acoustical watt corresponds to 120 dB SPL, that's VERY loud, like operating a jackhammer with no ear protection. Movies played back at reference levels have only 105dB peaks, and most HT setups don't even have enough power to reproduce that.



I was talking on the "point of view" of the amp. Actually I deliberately did that, stating acoustic energy instead of power output.

Congrats, pwede ka mag abugado.


Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #20 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:40 PM »


I was talking on the "point of view" of the amp. Actually I deliberately did that, stating acoustic energy instead of power output.

Congrats, pwede ka mag abugado.

Injection your honor!  ;D
« Last Edit: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:40 PM by Nelson de Leon »

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #21 on: Oct 08, 2014 at 12:44 PM »
Injection your honor!  ;D


Mag file na lang ng motion for reconsideration! ;D


Offline sientobente

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #22 on: Oct 10, 2014 at 12:53 AM »
An old thread but worth sharing from Alan Lofft...

As audio/video hobbyists, most of us grew up thinking that if we have an amplifier with 50 watts of rated output power into 8-ohm speakers, and that combination produces reasonably clean and loud music, then by doubling the amplifier power to 100 watts per channel, the system would then play twice as loud. Many readers likely still believe that. Not so.

Although it's not the easiest thing to comprehend, doubling the amplifier power does not double the loudness. In the above example, the sound from the speakers would not be "twice as loud"; it would only be "a little louder," an increase of 3 decibels. How loud is that? Hearing tests with large groups of people have revealed that a one-decibel (1 dB) change in loudness is approximately the smallest audible step that the average listener can detect, so an increase of 3 dB most listeners term "slightly louder."

So why doesn't that 100-watt amplifier always sound twice as loud? Because the acoustic decibel--the decibel (dB) being the unit of measurement used worldwide to quantify the acoustic loudness of sound--has a peculiar relationship to amplifier power output measured in electrical watts. That relationship is called "logarithmic." If that word gives you an instant headache (nightmares of high-school math), then here's a simpler explanation:

If a sound gets louder by 3 decibels or "slightly louder," it takes twice as much electrical power from your receiver or amp to produce that modest increase. Therefore, a 100-watt amplifier will produce sound only slightly louder than a 50-watt amplifier.
Incidentally, if you'd like a kind of immortality, be terribly clever and work out a system of measurement. It may be named after you. The "decibel," one tenth of a bel and named for BellAlexander Graham Bell, recognizes his contributions to the understanding of sound. Likewise, we have to thank James Watt, Georg Simon Ohm, and Heinrich Hertz for their contributions to the industry. And then there's the Lofft, a measurement of neighbors' tolerance to testing new speaker systems . . .

So far, so good. But what if it's party time, and you're listening to music "very loud," a level defined as about 90 dB Sound Pressure Level (SPL), and your speakers are gobbling up swings of 15 to 20 watts per channel on those musical peaks.

Drink in hand, you advance to the volume control on your receiver thinking, "I'll just crank this up to make the music twice as loud," and you turn up the volume control until there's a 10 dB increase in the sound level. Now your party-time goal of "twice as loud" will make huge electrical demands on your nice little multi-channel receiver or power amp. The receiver must deliver ten times as much power to double the subjective loudness. Between 6 dB and 10 dB is double the volume level, where 6 dB is four times the power and 10 dB is 10 times the power. In the aforementioned example, the amp must produce 150 to 200 watts per channel for those peaks in loudness. Therefore, every 10-dB increase in acoustic loudness--from 80 dB to 90 dB, or 90 dB to 100 dB--requires ten times as much electrical power in watts.

That's all very well if you have a monster amplifier or multi-channel A/V receiver with huge reserves of power output (most of us don't). If not, watch out. Your receiver or amp may "clip" or distort (or both), which will put a clamp on the output of the amp. When you push your amplifier into overload or "clipping," several things may happen. First, the top and bottom of the waveforms (representing the audio signals) are clipped off, generating distortion. Next, the amplifier's protection circuits are activated, removing those portions of the signal that are causing the overload, generating distortion. And finally, the amplifier's power supply may fluctuate according to the demands of the music signals.

Not everyone is affected by this scenario, of course. Some people (increasingly few, it seems) don't listen to loud music. They like background levels, and with average speakers, background levels demand 1 watt or less of amplifier power. Or they may have very efficient speakers (Klipsch, Cerwin-Vega, Tannoy, and the like) that will play extremely loud using modest amplifiers, the trade-off being a very large degradation in tonal accuracy, a definite harshness, and a complete loss of off-axis performance that accompanies horn-loaded designs. But in many situations, speakers will be damaged and distorted sound will offend many ears.

No discussion of decibels, acoustic loudness, and electrical watts is complete without an explanation of loudspeaker "sensitivity." (Another way to define a speaker's sensitivity is to look at how efficiently the speaker converts electrical power, in watts, to acoustic sound output in decibels.) Let it be said in a general way that speakers are not very efficient or sensitive devices. They need a lot of electrical power input to produce relatively little acoustic output. Nevertheless, speakers do vary quite a bit in sensitivity.

To determine a speaker's sensitivity, we feed the speaker with 1 watt of amplifier power, using a test signal of pink noise, and measure in decibels how loud the sound is at a distance of 1 meter (about 3 feet). A lot of domestic hi-fi speakers measure in at about 89 or 90 dB SPL at 1 meter. Larger speakers, with bigger woofers and more drivers, typically produce greater acoustic output; smaller bookshelf models have to work harder, and their output is typically less, often between 86 and 88 dB SPL at 1 meter.

Placing the speaker in a room helps (the walls, ceiling, and floor reflect and reinforce the speaker's sound), adding about 4 dB to its output. For example, a speaker like Axiom's M80ti has a measured sensitivity in an anechoic chamber of 91 dB SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter. But putting the M80ti in a room raises its sensitivity rating to 95 dB SPL at 1 watt, 1 meter. A 95-dB sound level happens to be "very loud," as most of us would subjectively describe it. And it is--from 3 feet (1 meter) in front of the speaker. But let's move our listening seat back twice as far, to 6 feet. Guess what happens? We instinctively know that sound gets weaker as the distance from the source is increased, but by how much? A formula called the "inverse square law" tells us that when the distance from the source is doubled, the sound pressure weakens by 6 dB. Among sound engineers, there's a common saying: "6 dB per distance double." So at a 6-ft. distance, the M80ti is now producing 89 dB. Now let's double that distance again to 12 feet, a fairly common listening distance. The speaker now produces 83 dB, which isn't all that loud at all. And if you sat 24 feet away, a not uncommon distance in big rooms, the speaker would produce 77 dB SPL.

But what about stereo, I hear you shout. Here's another oddity of loudness and the decibel. When one speaker is producing a level of 90 dB, adding a second speaker playing at the same level only increases the overall loudness by 3 dB! (The loudness does not double!). So the two speakers in stereo produce a loudness level of 93 dB.

So adding a second M80ti will raise the loudness at 12 feet from 83 dB to 86 dB. And don't forget we're still using 1 watt of amplifier power output into Axiom's most sensitive speaker. But how loud are real-life instruments, orchestras and rock bands? Now, while 86 dB SPL is "fairly loud," it's not nearly as loud as what you might hear from a good seat at an actual rock concert or from an orchestra or pianist in a concert hall. A solo grand piano can reach peak levels of 109 dB SPL, a full orchestra and chorus in a concert hall will measure 106 dB, and a rock group, 120 dB SPL. Now let's try and get our peak speaker sound levels to 96 dB, "twice as loud" as our 86-dB listening level. That isn't that difficult because right now we're only using 1 watt per channel to drive the M80ti's to 86 dB. So we'll need ten times as much power, or 10 watts, to reach 96 dB. Big deal. We've got lots more.

But things begin to change, and rather dramatically. Let's push the M80ti's to what we might experience from a solo grand piano, 109 dB. We're at 96 dB with 10 watts per channel. Let's go to 106 dB. So that requires 10 x 10, or 100 watts. Close, but not quite there yet. Just 3 dB more. Remember, we have to double the power for a 3-dB increase in sound level. So 100 watts becomes 200 watts. Yikes! Our receiver has only 110 watts maximum output! We've run out of amplifier power! And what about the rock concert? Let's lower our expectations and aim for 119 dB. Going from 109 dB SPL, which needs 200 watts per channel, to 119 dB SPL (get out your ear plugs) is another 10-dB jump and--you do the math--that requires 10 x 200, or 2,000 watts per channel!

From all this you can see the huge power requirements inherent in reproducing real-life acoustic sound levels in average or big rooms. The M80ti's are tested to levels of 1,200 watts of input power so they come very close. But the truth is that if we are seeking real-life acoustic sound levels in our listening rooms, there's a very persuasive argument for very large, powerful amplifiers. And if your speakers are less sensitive (and many are), then the power demands rise even more dramatically. Sizeable rooms and greater listening distances will also increase power demands tremendously.

And what many of us don't realize until we hear it, is that clean undistorted loud sound often does not sound that "loud." The key here is that in most or our home listening, there are small amounts of distortion caused by a lack of dynamic headroom (but more on that next month). It's the distortion that makes it sound "loud" in a domestic setting. To remove those distortions and increase dynamic headroom relates to even more power. We've become accustomed to accepting some distortion with our reproduced music, because all amplifier's distortion ratings gradually increase as they approach their output limits or slightly clip the audio signals. When that happens, we turn down the volume, because distortion starts to intrude on our listening pleasure, and it sounds "too loud."

The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels. The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels.


dito pala tumatambay ang resident undefeated EMMA Expert Unlimited champ na si Boss Paeng ;)

Offline romymartinez

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #23 on: Oct 10, 2014 at 01:31 PM »
A post from diyaudio.com by Bob Cordell (author of Designing Audio Power Amplifiers)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/163657-so-how-much-power-do-you-really-need-domestic-listening-3.html#post2128049

Hi Mooly,

How much power you need in your amplifiers depends on the dynamic range of the music, the sensitivity of your loudspeakers, the size of the room, and how far you are seated from the speakers. There are a lot of factors, but the numbers can get ugly fast in the worst case, so we have to be cautious about generalizations.

Peter Smith and I conducted listening and measurement workshops at RMAF2006 and HE2007. Workshop #5 dealt with exactly your question. Some of the results were stunning, both to us and the participants. You might want to go to my website at Cordell Audio: Home Page and click on the RMAF tab, then click on Workshop 5. There is a summary there of what we did.

I built a peak+average meter with dual digital readout that held the maximum of the rms and peak values for 3 seconds so one could read it. It read out directly in watts referenced to an 8 ohm load. If you drive the meter with a sinewave, both meters read identically.

The peak meter could see a 10 us peak. The better the music is recorded, the bigger the numbers. We played a very well-recorded CD by Rickie Lee Jones with over 14 dB crest factor. The sound level was realistic in a standard hotel room (not uncomfortably loud). The speakers were 83 dB 1 watt 1 meter. They were powered by a 250 wpc amp.

The peaks hit 250W. The biggest peaks resulted from a mean thwack on a snare drum. This test was certainly cause for pause. BUT, remember that 10 dB in speaker sensitivity is a factor of ten in power. If you speakers are 93 dB efficient, then you need only 25W for this (if you are just in ahotel room).

Most music available today unfortuantely has very little crest factor, and that is why a small amplifier will sometimes drive you out of the room.

Cheers,
Bob

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Offline qguy

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #25 on: Oct 10, 2014 at 11:42 PM »
Dito ako confused, 2 channel lang kasi gamit ko, For those using 5.1 systems.  How do you now matched or decide on how much power you need when the specs of the AVR says 100 watts at 1 kHZ and since  you have subwoofer taking the load off the amp to deliver the bass signals.  Unlike sa 2 channel, basically you need to know the wattage at from 20 to 20kHZ, since your amp will be producing the full frequency range

Offline dm1179

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #26 on: Oct 13, 2014 at 05:30 PM »
Dito ako confused, 2 channel lang kasi gamit ko, For those using 5.1 systems.  How do you now matched or decide on how much power you need when the specs of the AVR says 100 watts at 1 kHZ and since  you have subwoofer taking the load off the amp to deliver the bass signals.  Unlike sa 2 channel, basically you need to know the wattage at from 20 to 20kHZ, since your amp will be producing the full frequency range

quick answer is i just let my wallet decide on how much power i can afford.
« Last Edit: Oct 13, 2014 at 05:30 PM by dm1179 »
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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #27 on: Oct 13, 2014 at 06:56 PM »
Dito ako confused, 2 channel lang kasi gamit ko, For those using 5.1 systems.  How do you now matched or decide on how much power you need when the specs of the AVR says 100 watts at 1 kHZ and since  you have subwoofer taking the load off the amp to deliver the bass signals.  Unlike sa 2 channel, basically you need to know the wattage at from 20 to 20kHZ, since your amp will be producing the full frequency range
quick answer is i just let my wallet decide on how much power i can afford.

Tama! Hehe! Anyway, ang advantage ng mulit-channel receiver nowadays is you can cut the low frequencies hence, hindi gaano hirap ang amp. In my case, hirap ang Pio 1020 ko sa 4 ohms 10" speakers set at large (full range, no cut-offs), so i had to set it at small. Medjo malakas din kasi ako minsan sa gain (parang si qguy hehe!) and tingin ko, nasa 80-95 db na ang volume ko. Pero at ordinary listening levels, kayang kaya ng Pio 1020 sa large setting. That's also why I bought a more powerful receiver, kaya lang I have to sell it due to new business.

Offline tony

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #28 on: Oct 13, 2014 at 07:30 PM »
quick answer is i just let my wallet decide on how much power i can afford.

best answer....:up:
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline iiinas

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Re: Secrets of Amplifier and Speaker Power Requirements Revealed
« Reply #29 on: Oct 13, 2014 at 09:31 PM »

Sa Savemore grocery dito sa amin may appliance section na may for sale na amp 1000W per channel, sabi nun salesman bale 2000W yun kasi stereo pa. Pag kinabitan ng tig-1000W na speaker bale 4000W na daw lahat.

Tinanong ko baka malakas sa kuryente yan pag 4000W na lahat lahat? Sabi niya hindi naman daw kasi wala pa 100W ang total consumption.

Nagpasalamat ako at umalis na kasi tinatawag na ako ng asawa ko eh... ;D



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