Topic: Affordable 4k Resolution PJ with HDR???

[rulesmeister]

Guys, 4k HDR-ready TVs became mainstream. The thing is, for PJ, this 4k HDR technology is available only on high-end brands like Sony, JVC, Runco etc.

Feasible kaya 4k HDR PJs na mura lang like somewhere in the 3k-4k USD price range?   

[♡ lvcdg23™ ✌]

At that price, yung mga PJ with 4K "enhancement" (pseudo 4K) ang meron like the Epson TW8300

You could inquire kay Marc aka avshop for audition and prices

[rulesmeister]

Thanks Sir Louie, but the Epson is still 1080p native resolution.. Ung 4k enhancement parang 1 pixel native will just show an equivalent of 4 pixels in succession as opposed to normal 1:1 pixel ratio. Tama po ba?   

Parang napagiwanan na sa tech upgrade ang PJ industry. 4k DLP PJs is still not being mass produced, non-HDR pa. 

Loupah, baka may mahanap ka ng alternative 4k PJ na mura :-)

[LouPah]

 

Thanks Sir Louie, but the Epson is still 1080p native resolution.. Ung 4k enhancement parang 1 pixel native will just show an equivalent of 4 pixels in succession as opposed to normal 1:1 pixel ratio. Tama po ba?   

Parang napagiwanan na sa tech upgrade ang PJ industry. 4k DLP PJs is still not being mass produced, non-HDR pa. 

Loupah, baka may mahanap ka ng alternative 4k PJ na mura :-)

Papunta pa lang ako sa 1080p mga master, nag-eenjoy pa ako sa 720p projectors ko. Sana next-year meron na, para masasabayan ko na kayo

[rulesmeister]

^So I guess, balik loob nalang muna ako sa TV. Planning to buy 4k HDR display this Q1, I'm looking at Sony 4k TV with HDR. My BenQ W1070 still looks great at 10-12ft viewing distance, sana by the time the bulb hits 6000 hrs mura na 4k HDR PJ. May mga 4k movies na rin kasi ako, I needed a display to enjoy it.

Eto pala 1080p native reso enhanced to 4k:
"Although these aren’t native 4K Ultra HD 3LCD displays, their embedded 4K Enhancement technology shifts the pixels on native 1080 3LCD chips diagonally 0.5 pixels to effectively double the resolution to a 3840 x 2160 4K-like resolution experience. The net effect of the resolution can be hard to distinguish from native 4K Ultra HD projectors from Sony, which can cost many thousands of dollars more without the same level of brightness."


Sir Louie:
Kong HDR ung display mo, kelangan ba recorded in HDR din ung movie mo? I do have 4k movies but I'm not sure if HDR na 'to. Nasa 20GB++ or more ung file size..

[Nelson de Leon]

Yes I think kailangan HDR din ang source. Hindi ko lang alam kung may upscaling ba sa HDR.
Another question ko din is, assuming na walang upscaling, would an ordinary full HD or 4k movie (non HDR) look "better" on an HDR monitor ?

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[Stagea]

Eto pala 1080p native reso enhanced to 4k:
"Although these aren’t native 4K Ultra HD 3LCD displays, their embedded 4K Enhancement technology shifts the pixels on native 1080 3LCD chips diagonally 0.5 pixels to effectively double the resolution to a 3840 x 2160 4K-like resolution experience. The net effect of the resolution can be hard to distinguish from native 4K Ultra HD projectors from Sony, which can cost many thousands of dollars more without the same level of brightness."

JVC's been using pixel shift tech for quite sometime. Late last year lang sila nagkaron ng native 4k projector.

Good HDR is hard to do with projectors because of light source & transmissivity limitations and generally lower contrast (especially when we factor in ambient light reflection). Color gamut is generally not as good as TVs as well.

This may be worth a look for a budget price:
http://www.avsforum.com/optoma-uhd60-4k-hdr-projector-at-ces-2017/
The light output rating is twice that of Epson's laser HDR projector, which might actually be enough to make HDR palpable.

[Nelson de Leon]

JVC's been using pixel shift tech for quite sometime. Late last year lang sila nagkaron ng native 4k projector.

Good HDR is hard to do with projectors because of light source & transmissivity limitations and generally lower contrast (especially when we factor in ambient light reflection). Color gamut is generally not as good as TVs as well.

This may be worth a look for a budget price:
http://www.avsforum.com/optoma-uhd60-4k-hdr-projector-at-ces-2017/
The light output rating is twice that of Epson's laser HDR projector, which might actually be enough to make HDR palpable.

Likey likey!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma-uhd60.htm
Posted Jan 7, 2017 12:00:15 PM
By Evan Powell, Editor

I guess I should write a separate piece on this, but to clarify, the pixel shift technology used by Epson and JVC is essentially different than the way the 4K DLP chip operates. It is not correct to think of the DLP process as pixel shift in the same sense as it is on 3LCD. On the 3LCD pixel shift machines, a 1920x1080 image is scanned on the first pass, then a second 1920x1080 image is off shifted diagonally by about half a pixel up and a half pixel sideways and overlaid onto the first scan. So it does not create a completely separate field of discrete pixels on screen on the second pass like the DLP chip does. This happens so fast that the eye cannot detect it, in the same way that interlaced scanning on CRTs is not visible. The advantage is that the first and second scans can be two slightly different 1920x1080 images (in other words, double the number of addressable discrete pixels) and the projector's image processing engine blends them to smooth out stair-stepping and increase detail definition. The result, as far as the eye perceives, is substantially enhanced picture resolution compared to standard 1080p. Though the math says it is half the number of addressable pixels compared to native 4K, the eye will perceive most video material as much closer to native 4K than 1080p. When viewing video material from normal viewing distances it will be difficult for most consumers to tell the difference. However with high resolution complex graphics you are more likely to see moire patterns and imprecise rendering of fine detail on the 3LCD pixel-shifted images that you don't see with the 4K DLP chip. Similarly, with complex financial spreadsheets when the font size of the text is particularly small, it is certainly more readable on the DLP chip. So it is with this type of subject matter that the increased precision of the 4K DLP chip is most apparent.

The 4K DLP chip starts with double the number of mirrors as a standard 1080p imaging device. But each mirror is capable of defining two separate and distinct pixels on the screen in alternating scans--the pixels do not overlap as they do on 3LCD pixel-shift machines. Again this happens so fast that it is not perceptible to the eye. So it is misleading to say that the 4K DLP chip has half the number of "pixels" as a native 4K chip -- it is technically correct to say that it has half the number of mirrors. With this technology there is no image processing required to blend the first and second scan. Projectors that use this chip are fully able to address all pixels in the 4K signal and put them on the screen. So we have no problem categorizing this chip as genuinely native 4K based on the fact that the image that it produces consists of the full resolution of the 4K signal.

[♡ lvcdg23™ ✌]

[quote author=rulesmeister link=topic=211237.msg2485325#msg2485325 date=1484660060

Sir Louie:
Kong HDR ung display mo, kelangan ba recorded in HDR din ung movie mo? I do have 4k movies but I'm not sure if HDR na 'to. Nasa 20GB++ or more ung file size..

[/quote]

Yes sir, dapat HDR din ang content

This may be worth a look for a budget price:
http://www.avsforum.com/optoma-uhd60-4k-hdr-projector-at-ces-2017/
The light output rating is twice that of Epson's laser HDR projector, which might actually be enough to make HDR palpable.

Ayun!!!
May Optoma 4K PJ na pala na below $3,000
Nice!!!

[rulesmeister]

This may be worth a look for a budget price:
http://www.avsforum.com/optoma-uhd60-4k-hdr-projector-at-ces-2017/
The light output rating is twice that of Epson's laser HDR projector, which might actually be enough to make HDR palpable.

Good news ito para sa amin na mga budget-conscious A/V enthusiasts. If Optoma's going to release 4k HDR-ready DLP-based PJ this year, hindi nalalayo maglalabas din si Acer, Vivitek, Viewsonic, BenQ et al ng PJ of the same spec. Malamang nasa 1k-2k USD ang presyo nito if lahat ng mga ito maglalabas ng kani-kanilang 4k HDR PJs..

I'll hold the Sony 4k HDR TV purchase for the meantime. Pangdagdag budget ko nalang for PJ purchase end of this year or early next year. Di hamak mas malaking screen size pa rin naman talaga labanan when it comes to display units wherein the TV could not even compete.. 

[Stagea]

The Optoma UHD60 and UHD65 are now available at $1999 and $2499 respectively.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/optoma-uhd60-4k-dlp-projector-with-high-dynamic-range-white/5912304.p

[crazyhog]

The Optoma UHD60 and UHD65 are now available at $1999 and $2499 respectively.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/optoma-uhd60-4k-dlp-projector-with-high-dynamic-range-white/5912304.p

may comparison na nito ( UHD60 ) againts LS10500, EPSON 4040 /5040 and SONY VW365es(?)


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[dts-HD 3D]

Nice, with HDR but no horizontal lens shift and input lag is high. Pang xbox one x sana.
Well at that price you really can not have it all.

[Stagea]

Nice, with HDR but no horizontal lens shift and input lag is high. Pang xbox one x sana.
Well at that price you really can not have it all.

Agree, Master Luther. Mataas nga input lag and vertical lens shift only. I think it's alone at its price point with the TI UHD DMD at the moment, however. Yung Benq and Acer using the same chip are much more expensive (though they are higher end projectors with more features like H/V lens shift).

[dts-HD 3D]

Yep master idol, sayang. Oh nice meron na din pala ang Benq and Acer sige, ma check nga.

[Stagea]

Yep master idol, sayang. Oh nice meron na din pala ang Benq and Acer sige, ma check nga.

Master, ready ka na magpalit ng alias to dts:X 8K HDR? Edge-blending ng four 4K projectors ang 8K projector demos ngayon karamihan, though hindi elegant solution pa dahil maselan sa alignment, hiwalay na processing at walang source content.

[dts-HD 3D]

hahaha palitan ko 16K o 32K master para pang matagalan.
Wala pala support for HDR yung BenQ. 

[Nelson de Leon]

hahaha palitan ko 16K o 32K master para pang matagalan.
Wala pala support for HDR yung BenQ. 

Idol!!!

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[dts-HD 3D]

Master idol konsi don nelson . . . kamusta.
Alyas lang kaya ko palitan sa ngayon unless ipamana mo sa akin yung christie pj mo

[Nelson de Leon]

Master idol konsi don nelson . . . kamusta.
Alyas lang kaya ko palitan sa ngayon unless ipamana mo sa akin yung christie pj mo

Why not?! As long as you can get it in my dreams. Hehe!


Bagay naman sa iyo ang alyas na "mayaman".   Hehe!

[dts-HD 3D]

  like

e burahin na ang salitang mahirap kung ganon

[Stagea]

like

e burahin na ang salitang mahirap kung ganon

Bago ang screen at projector nyan ni DMF... kumikita ng husto ang Christie sa kanya.

hahaha palitan ko 16K o 32K master para pang matagalan.
Wala pala support for HDR yung BenQ. 

Onga master. 51ms daw input lag nung Optoma... parang mga earlier UHD TVs, pero yung HDR mode nya usable daw. Mukhang similar sa VW550ES ang ginawa nilang processing, which is a big improvement over the VW520ES sa HDR.
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/optoma-uhd60-projector

[rulesmeister]

Vivitek HK2288 native 4k projector has HDR capability. Hindi pa released but could be "cheaper" (under USD 3k)

[GIJoe]

New sony projectors sana mura ung entry level nila VPL-VW260ES


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[Stagea]

UHD Price war:
https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-HT2550-Projector-Audiovisual-Enhancer/dp/B077PP4S93
https://www.amazon.com/Vivitek-HK2288-WH-Bright-Cinema-Projector/dp/B075ZZ93GY
https://www.amazon.com/Optoma-UHD60-Definition-Theater-Projector/dp/B071P6KQZH

[Nelson de Leon]

UHD Price war:
https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-HT2550-Projector-Audiovisual-Enhancer/dp/B077PP4S93
https://www.amazon.com/Vivitek-HK2288-WH-Bright-Cinema-Projector/dp/B075ZZ93GY
https://www.amazon.com/Optoma-UHD60-Definition-Theater-Projector/dp/B071P6KQZH

Price war na nga this year. Its time. 

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[ricky]

Pero not real 4k naman yan. Mahal pa din yun true 4k reaolution

[Stagea]

Pero not real 4k naman yan. Mahal pa din yun true 4k reaolution

Unlike the older Epsons and JVCs na hindi talaga 4k, true 4k nato in terms of displayed pixel count. Ang problem lang is overlap with adjacent pixels dahil sa pixel shift mechanism. It won't be as sharp as a projector that has a native 4k/UHD chip however, since walang overlap ang ganun.

[rulesmeister]

BenQ W1700 4k HDR is now approx. US$1.5k.. Bababa pa kaya ito?

[tacquio]

Dreeeaam, dream dream dream dreeeaam (sa tune ng Everly Bros.). Kailan kaya maglalabas ang mga Chinese ng pang masa nito?