Topic: Optical vs Coaxial connection

[theblue]

Guys I have both Optical and Coaxial cables. Both from Monster Cable Home series. What i can really say based on facts is that they both transmit or carry out same digital (0/1) signals. No more no less. The only difference is the medium.

Both Coaxial cables and Optical aka Toslink cables can bring out DTS and DD sound for your system. Based on pure facts, no one has a distinct sound which differs from the other. For they are carrying the same 1/0 signals, That means one cannot say that the Coaxial cable will give you fuller or thicker sound.

These are the difference you get for either of the two:

Coaxial cable is thicker, why? Because it should be heavily shielded. These copper wires on a Coaxial cable can be affected by interferences from your Receiver, DVD player or from power cords. Coaxial cable has the end of a standard RCA jack. Often, these ends are gold plated to ensure proper connection to your system.

Stores prefer coaxial cable. I really don't know why, they said it would really give you thicker sound based on their personal experience. But then again, nothing can prove this.

Optical cable (aka Toslink cable) can be also used in place of a Coaxial cable. It is thinner that a Coaxial cable. Wonder why? because these optical cables use light as the medium to pass those 1 and 0 signals. And light is not interfered by radio signals and magnetic fields emitted by your Receiver, DVD player, Power adapter and all those snakey wires at the back of your system. Therefore, it does not need heavy shielding like a coaxial cable. Gets?

Optical cable has different connectors, it is harder to use because you will need to connect it o your system properly.

Just for a closer comparison,

Optical cables cannot be bent, twisted or abused, whereas coaxial cable can.

Optical cables have poor stability on its connectors, Coaxial cables fit properly and tightly to your devices which I also like.

Coaxial cables can be affected by interferences, whereas Optical cables will never be affected by any magnetic field.

Prefer Optical cables if you will be running it longer than 10 feet. (But I'm sure you won't).

Coaxial cables are cheaper than Optical cables. (My coax cost P1200 and my Optical cost me P1450)

For me , I use my Optical cable for the Playstation 2 (Games often give out 5.1 surround sound). FIY, Playstation 2 only supports Optical connection. And my Coaxial cable for the DVD player.

In the end, let your research and your Wallet be your guide!

[gearhead]

theblue

you put the thing so nicely. i think we're on the same camp here.

anyway, to add to the discussion... here's an excerpt from the cambridge audio website:

Should I use an optical or coaxial cable to connect my DVD player to my AV Amp?

There are pros and cons to the both types of digital cable you can use to connect your DVD player.

• Coaxial cables transfer an electrical digital signal between the units, in the same form that the units process the information. This means that a coaxial cable sends the information in its purest form but as there will always be resistance in the cable, the signal will degrade over long lengths.

• Optical cables require the signal from the DVD player to be converted into light (and back again once it reaches the amplifier ) which is technically less efficient but over a long distance an optical cable is not subject to the same degradation that a coaxial cable would be.

Put simply, choose coaxial for a short distance (under 3m) between your amp and DVD and, optical for a longer distance (3m+).

[theblue]

yeah Gearhead. I think your with me. Even with the gears!

I have 9.1 Front, 9.CS and 9.dfs too.
Pioneer as reciever though.

[streetsmart]

Gearhead / theblue

I agree with you guys but I don't know if you have read these articles:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/understanding-digital-interconnects
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/toslink-interconnect-history-basics
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1093jitter/

The articles point out that optical interconnects may be subject to "jitter," which is basically an error in the timing of the digital signal. In turn, this may be caused by limited bandwidth due to poor quality optical cables.

The articles also mention that when the optical cables are of poor quality, it is more prone to error when transmitting over long distances.

I would really be interested in seeing what you guys think, especially gearhead who I suspect is an electronics engineer. Tama ba? 

My own additional practical observation is that if you are doing a long cable run, it is not so easy to source a long optical cable but you can easily do a DIY coax cable.

[staind01]

did a comparison years ago -- AR optical cable vs. Monster Coax.

i use both. for audio, i prefer the more solid (thick), musical sound of Coax but for HT, i prefer Optical due to the wider soundstage (galing pag nag-pan ang sound sa surrounds).

NOTE that bass is still solid when using Optical but the wider soundstage is not for me when listening to music.

gears used: Denon 3800, NHT speakers, Pio DVD player, Kenwood CDP.

HTH 

[theblue]

Streetsmart is correct. Optical signals may have jitter... Thanks for those links again. I highly recommend them. I did read them by the way.

But you see, as for my personal experience, I havn't noticed any jitters using the optical cables, I don't know if that's just because I know exactly how to use an care for TOSLINK cables but my ears never heard any. One article I read previously says that these jitters will essensially cause the 0's to become 1's and vice versa. So, as far as I know it will not deliver the intended digital signals that should be passed on to the other system. And these jitters are so small they become hardly audible.

I'm also using a good quality Optical cable from Monster cable so I can say the materials used were not of a short. Cost me quite a bit though.

As I've said before, I was using the Optical cable for my PS2. And the Playstation 2 does not have a Coaxial interconnect. I don't really have a choice, do I?

For those who has links for the Coaxial vs. Optical cables we may have not read yet... be my guest.

[audiojunkie]

Streetsmart is correct. Optical signals may have jitter... Thanks for those links again. I highly recommend them. I did read them by the way.

But you see, as for my personal experience, I havn't noticed any jitters using the optical cables, I don't know if that's just because I know exactly how to use an care for TOSLINK cables but my ears never heard any. One article I read previously says that these jitters will essensially cause the 0's to become 1's and vice versa. So, as far as I know it will not deliver the intended digital signals that should be passed on to the other system. And these jitters are so small they become hardly audible.

I'm also using a good quality Optical cable from Monster cable so I can say the materials used were not of a short. Cost me quite a bit though.

As I've said before, I was using the Optical cable for my PS2. And the Playstation 2 does not have a Coaxial interconnect. I don't really have a choice, do I?

For those who has links for the Coaxial vs. Optical cables we may have not read yet... be my guest.

To hear the jitter in optical connection, one must have very trained pair of ears or has bat's ears. To verify the presence of this anomally, it has to be tested or measured with proper equipments...

[streetsmart]

To hear the jitter in optical connection, one must have very trained pair of ears or has bat's ears. To verify the presence of this anomally, it has to be tested or measured with proper equipments...

I have been reading about jitter for the longest time but frankly, I have never actually "heard" it. In theory, you can also hear it when you compare a cheap CD player with a high-end one. I own a pretty high-end Onkyo Integra CD player but it's really hard to tell the difference compared to my Pioneer all-in-one which cost less than 20% of the dedicated Integra CD player. Same thing with optical vs. coax and cheap optical vs. expensive optical, all of which I have tested.

E baka naman mahina lang tainga ko. 

Or maybe, tama si audiojunkie. You need special instruments.

[audiojunkie]

I have been reading about jitter for the longest time but frankly, I have never actually "heard" it. In theory, you can also hear it when you compare a cheap CD player with a high-end one. I own a pretty high-end Onkyo Integra CD player but it's really hard to tell the difference compared to my Pioneer all-in-one which cost less than 20% of the dedicated Integra CD player. Same thing with optical vs. digital and cheap optical vs. expensive optical, all of which I have tested.

E baka naman mahina lang tainga ko. 

Or maybe, tama si audiojunkie. You need special instruments.

Comparing cheap vs. high end player and cheap vs. expensive optical, IMHO, the materials used in the construction has something to do to affect the sound quality. As I've read in one A/V article all interconnects has to be treated as another piece of component in our set-up. If possible, it has to be of same quality of the other equipments. 

[gearhead]

i will just have to add that jitter that will affect performance do appear mostly on long cable runs or really cheap equipment. high grade equipment will have error checking and correction, equalization or both. it's mostly a factor for post-prod/recording/broadcasting setups. for consumer grade equipment... it's not really too much of an issue. there are many other factors to consider before it becomes one.

[streetsmart]

i will just have to add that jitter that will affect performance do appear mostly on long cable runs or really cheap equipment. high grade equipment will have error checking and correction, equalization or both. it's mostly a factor for post-prod/recording/broadcasting setups. for consumer grade equipment... it's not really too much of an issue. there are many other factors to consider before it becomes one.

Thanks! That's what I wanted to hear because that's what I suspected. Kaya nga its no big deal for us hobbyists. I am not shy about spending money (and sometimes a lot of money) for better picture and sound quality but honestly, if you can't see or hear the difference, why spend any money at all? That's why I will never buy the extremely expensive cables or CD players (except for the one I bought 8 years ago  ).

And paano mo naman alam yun? Do you work in the broadcast or recording industry? Baka naman rock star ka kaya sanay ka sa recording? 

[czrocker]

To hear the jitter in optical connection, one must have very trained pair of ears or has bat's ears. To verify the presence of this anomally, it has to be tested or measured with proper equipments...

you need to use Optical Time Domain Reflectometer Tester to check the quality of your optical cable. Cost around 1.2++ Mil...

[ericag_ph]

I just have to reply to the interesting comments above....

If digital coax, digital optical cables, carry 1s and 0s (and they do), why then did a cheapo P200 optical cable I bought needed to have a higher volume level (by at least 2 notches or like 2-3 hours if you imagine the volume knob like a clock) than a $$$ optical cable (just to match the sound level)?  It's as if the receiver had to use more power when using a cheapo optical cable than and expensive quality optical cable.

Eitherway, I noticed my cheap coax cable (plain unbranded RG6 75ohm coax) sounded significantly better than my $$$ optical cable.

Is it the circuitry? the DSP? the ADC? 

[odyopayl]

I just have to reply to the interesting comments above....

If digital coax, digital optical cables, carry 1s and 0s (and they do), why then did a cheapo P200 optical cable I bought needed to have a higher volume level (by at least 2 notches or like 2-3 hours if you imagine the volume knob like a clock) than a $$$ optical cable (just to match the sound level)?  It's as if the receiver had to use more power when using a cheapo optical cable than and expensive quality optical cable.

Eitherway, I noticed my cheap coax cable (plain unbranded RG6 75ohm coax) sounded significantly better than my $$$ optical cable.

Is it the circuitry? the DSP? the ADC? 

Basically either optical or Coax for carrying digital signal is the same if properly implemented. For home use, we are using at least 1meter to 2 meter  digital cable there shouldn't have difference. However, there are cheapo Optical cable (tosslink) that makes the optical bad reputation on audio application. from the word optical the fiber optics (The material use to transfer light)  use must be good quality, some are using glass fiber but so sensitive to use since they have minimum bending capability or they migh be damage.
For cheaper solution, coax is very practical you need a good 75ohm coaxial cable(with good insulator) and a good RCA plug presto.
The truth, if you have a good fiber optic cable this is the best medium for digital signal, first it doesn't affected by electrical interference and no capacitive or resistive factor that can affect it's performance. Fiber optics are widely used in transferring digital signal miles & miles away either transatlantic or underground cable. Remenber Digital Signals: They don't have any audible signals they are just carrying 0-1 signals

I am using both Optical and Coaxial cable. It's different because of the availability of digital output in my system. I'm using Analysis Plus for the optical & xlo for the the coax.

[Jimbo]

Is it possible to use a "Y" connector from dvd coax output to the left and right channel of a reciever with no coax input?

[Ctlim]

afaik, iba ang specs ng coax cable sa 2ch analog rca... though im sure tutunog naman.

[gearhead]

yup, that's true. coax cables are mostly used as a "transmission line" usually for 75 ohms or 50 ohms systems... while analog audio cables are used for "bridging"-type inputs, that is, you have a 10:1 or greater input/output impedance ratio. consumer type electronics use the latter as well as unbalanced mics, while for pro gear and balanced mics w/c uses xlr-type connectors they are usually 600 ohms, though they use 3-wire twisted cables too.

video cables are usually 75 ohms. if you measure the input with an ohmeter you should get a reading of exactly 75 ohms. subwoofer cables are usually specified as 75 ohms but this is not as critical as with video. 50 ohms coax is usually used for radio transmission, including those ham/amateur radios and CB's. impedance matching is more critical with video and rf frequencies as we're talking of mhz here, and even ghz... with the added higher power for rf applications.

[odyopayl]

Is it possible to use a "Y" connector from dvd coax output to the left and right channel of a reciever with no coax input?

The answer is NO, the signal coming from your coax is purely digital signal! I believe your dvd player have 2 channel output. Don't mind the coax output if you don't have processor for it.

[theblue]

Is it possible to use a "Y" connector from dvd coax output to the left and right channel of a reciever with no coax input?

No. It will not work. Don't mind trying it. Just use the ordinary Left/Right RCA of the DVD player. Coax signals are 1 and 0 signals. RCA's use AC current.

[Marl☆1]

Just my 10cents, personally I use optical for my HT and coax for my audio, not because of its attributes but moreso because it's dictated upon by the I/O of the gears that I have.  Well offhand, this was the reco as well of SGT when I visited his shop in Makati.  Per Sonny, optical is better for HT; it carriers more signals and is less likely to suffer from cross talk / ain't affected by electo magnetic fields. That's his expert opinion (so I followed it).  However, am sure others would have a totally diff perspective depending on their rigs. 

Like I mentioned, for my HT set-up, one factor I was obliged to contend with was my receiver's limitation.  Given the limited two digital outs, no choice but to hook up one source via optical (PS3 by default) and the other via coax (DVD upscaler).    There are a number of forums debating over this outside PDVD and everybody has their own opinion - majority likewise mentioned the diff was unnoticeable regardless of whichever digital audio link you use.  Best you let your gear decide, you may use coax for your usual DVDs if you prefer and just save your optical for the sources which don't have coax outputs (eg. PS3).   

Cheers! 

[aHobbit]

The answer is NO, the signal coming from your coax is purely digital signal! I believe your dvd player have 2 channel output. Don't mind the coax output if you don't have processor for it.

 


parang gustong ulitin itong thread na ito ...

http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=52216.0


Your receiver is equipped with a decoder of a fiber (light) signal and a decoder of a coax (electrical) signal. Both cable carry the same binary transmission. The audio is the translation of the codecs which is in the receivers. If the binaries are translated separately by either codecs, then you might really hear differences. But if the binaries are funnelled on the same audio codec, then there should be no difference at all.

bandwidth ... grainy ... fuller sound ... interference ... this are the hyping ads of monster cables and their shark relatives - its business as usual!

[kpy555]

I agree with aHobbit.

Optical and Digital Coax (note: Digital Coax, not analog) basically transfer the same amount of digital signal to the receiver/processor. I compared the 2 already in my system, and I don't hear any difference.

The main advantage of optical fiber cables is its bandwidth and transmission distance when used in communications. In HT, where cable lengths are short (often less than 10 meters), you can't really notice the difference.

When using Coax, make sure it's digital. There are some coax that are still rated as analog, so be careful. Data transfer rates of digital coax is faster compared to analog coax. Good quality digital coax usually have the following characteristics: solid tinned copper conductor, dual shield (foil and 95% braid), gas-injected polyethylene insulation).

Nevertheless, you can never go wrong with either.

[Dan]

I have a low-end Yamaha 5.1 system and I tried testing the different cable connections, optical and coax, for it.

They sound exactly the same. Maybe I'm missing something or my setup is too small to register any difference. Anyway, I made the test last night just to see if it works (have been using an optical [toslink] cable since I got my TSS-15 and only thought about its digital coax input while fiddling with my PC's digital out jack).

[raptor]

there should be no difference in performance ... this is digital transmission, "1s" and "0s" only ... it's either you are transmitting signal or none (if cable is cut) ... hence, for digital signals (including hdmi cables), don't expect to have better performance on video or audio quality if you buy very expensive cables such as Monster cables (pag may performance gain, psychological lang yan, dahil ang mahal ng bili mo sa cable  ) ... the advantage of the expensive cables would just be on the aesthetics and sturdiness ... better save your money to buy the expensive cables for analog transmitted signals (e.g. speaker cables) - here you can hear the difference

just a note on hdmi cables, although this is digital transmission, there will be performance differences between supported standards ... a hdmi 1.1 version can transmit less audio streams than the 1.3 version

the advantage of optical is that it can theoretically be extended up to 2km, while the coax up to 100m only ... but who would be requiring such lengths anyway 

the advantage of coax is that it can tolerate a smaller bending radius without cutting the cable inside ... i guess this makes it more practical to buy, since it's quite easy to break a fiber optic cable

another reason for choosing whether to buy coax or optical are the ports available on your dvd player (or other audio source) and your receiver or amplifier... kung wala naman palang optical out yung dvd player mo -coax bilhin mo ... hehe (joke's on me, i recently bought a pioneer dv400 dvd upscaler and an optical cable, only to find out na coax lang pala output nito ... damn )

[ramsey]

I have both optical and coaxial cables on my pioneer and HK receiver. Pag music coaxial, Pag movies optical.

[mercury724]

i have been using optical cables when i started this hobby 5 to 6 months ago, then i was just curious about digital coax connection, so i went to buy a medium grade 75ohms coax cable and some gold plated connectors. theres not really any difference between optical and coax in terms of SQ (or maybe because that i'm only running short length which is more or less 10meters only) but one thing i noticed, upon the start of a dvd the coax connection will have a slight delay in outputing the sound (only a few milisecond) whereas pag optical walang delay, the sound would come out of the speakers as soon as the dvd starts. well, thats based on my personal experience.

[aHobbit]

it might not be the fault of the cable - but rather your codecs. The timing of transmissions are both controlled based on specifications, but how it is translated into something analog (video or sound) is something being processed at the receiver side. For all you know, the signal is at the receivers end and the codecs of coax took longer to output it to your analog devices (amp and video)

[iiinas]

ako coax din. although i use optical too. 

[Ctlim]

i use both. i like digital coaxials as they are better built than most opticals.

[kraut]

i use optical to my ps2 and coax to my dvd viewing and cd/mp3.....