Author Topic: I need my setup to sound warm  (Read 16433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ctlim

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,567
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #30 on: Jan 18, 2008 at 05:34 PM »
relax lang guys... May I raise a simple question?  ;D

given the amount of R&D /testing and re-testing /engineering hours put on any well respected brand of amplifier.. (and I believe that Matt has enough ear experience)

why dont they just pre-break in the amplifier before selling it if they know that it'll change characteristics after a certain number of hours of usage? I remember a topic here that talked about how a specific brand of integrated amp sounded way better after break in; shouldnt the guys that manufacture these components take this into consideration when they pass literature of the product? or should we just assume that no mention means that it probably isnt true?

like how nokia teaches us that the first initial charge of battery is ek ek hours and not following that will result in your battery not achieving the longevity of usage that it is supposed to have? or like when a brand new car gets more efficient at gas when it passes the break in period?

I cant help but wonder why these ever so important things that may help a consumer understand a product better is possibly being left hanging (assuming they do exist), i mean, if you went to a showroom in the US or EU and auditioned an amp you liked because of its brightness and all of a sudden it warmed up after break in, it'll piss you off if you werent informed right? at the very least, the product manual shouldve indicated a break in period.  ??? ;D




Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #31 on: Jan 18, 2008 at 06:00 PM »
relax lang guys... May I raise a simple question?  ;D

given the amount of R&D /testing and re-testing /engineering hours put on any well respected brand of amplifier.. (and I believe that Matt has enough ear experience)

why dont they just pre-break in the amplifier before selling it if they know that it'll change characteristics after a certain number of hours of usage? I remember a topic here that talked about how a specific brand of integrated amp sounded way better after break in; shouldnt the guys that manufacture these components take this into consideration when they pass literature of the product? or should we just assume that no mention means that it probably isnt true?


Medyo nasasanay na ako kay sir ahobbit, ok lang yan. All opinions are for the reader to judge naman eh.

Whoa, you have to visualize what you are suggesting :). Imagine a whole factory production area rendered useless for a week just because of breaking in their products. How much will that translate in loss of profit (yes profit is needed to survive! a thought so alien and extremely evil for some!  :D), salaries paid, electric bills, etc.

Maybe thats why pricier amps that sound good right away are more expensive? :D

at the very least, the product manual shouldve indicated a break in period.

Hey, thats a great idea sir!

*********************************************


For tube users:

Arent there any tube users here who can attest that break in made a difference?

Or takot na kayo mag post at baka ma harass lang kayo at ma label as deluded, gullible, biktima, nagpaloko, nanloloko, sira ulo, bobo at walang muwang, pero nakatago lang sa ibang pananalita?  ;D

Sa bagay, not worth it nga naman.  :D

Kaya pala kumokonti mga posts :-\
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2008 at 06:41 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline aHobbit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,256
  • Think HARDER - HOLLOW Heads! No FO0Ls Please!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #32 on: Jan 18, 2008 at 07:57 PM »
For some noted mechanical assemblies, because of moving parts, a break-in is typically required - such are standards, documented, and the reason understood.

For some mechanical items, another process to check preparedness of an equipment is to stress-test - like in a printer, make so many passes before putting them on the line. This is true for commercial activities - not really applied at home.

But for electrical, (or electronics), it really intrigue me who started this break-in - and what is exactly resolved in the break-in process (which is quite clear in mechanical assemblies).

I am a fan of full range high sensitivity speakers. This type of speakers can hardly be seen vibrating (except for some like the corals). Imagine hearing here that speakers will be subjected by hobbyists to hours of vibration just to expedite burn-in! To my reasoning, such burn-in is a no-no in speakers I regard to be good.

Of course, speakers are mechanicals, and loosening them up will typically change their sonic characteristics to the hobbyist's goals - whether it will be for good or bad is another thing.

Factories have standards in putting out their products - it is not to burn them in. In a typical CRT factory, they will subject all finished monitor to a number of hours of just 'ON'. This is to identify early breakdowns (lemons) from among the bunch - not really performance-enhancing process.

Items just subject to about a few hours & survived are classified class C
Items at moderate number of hours as class B
and items that passed the rigid hours of test as class A

Items not subjected to any burn-in process are the one sold at cheap price at your own risk.  ;D

They do not need to shutdown their factory for the burn-in process - in fact this is quite a standard considering that they also knew the head ache of supporting returns and the image they project in making such a product.


Lastly, assumptions can be applied in many ways
... if it is not written it i not true
... if it is heard by somebody I trust, it is true
... if it is not heard by another, it depends whether I knew him or not

A very good example is the observation I noted with todays generation of ipods and gamers. Listening with the headphone (sometimes at high levels) at extended time, and doing games in front of the PC with dim lights. I nthe US, eating hamburgers will make you fat!  ;D

Peddlers of iPods and gaming console (McDo & Jollibee  ;D ) do not write the warning!
But the warning is clear and documented.
Such extended listening in a headphone will destroy the hearing & watching with no acceptable ambient light will destroy eyesight. We are raising a future generation of deaf & blind!  :D

Going back - burn-in of electronics, if true, should be documented (maybe not by the manufacturer) but as matter of standard in general electronic/electrical gear (IF EVER such burn-in is true and has technical basis).

In the absence of a clear technical basis, it can be relegated to the types of those snake oils - no matter how hard one swear! Of course, they experience snake oils, it improved the sound, the monster heard substantial difference in sound with their OFCs, and many swear peks man -

... not until everything has to be challenged, measured, and proven baseless ... and they go home scratching their heads
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2008 at 08:14 PM by aHobbit »
Anti PDVD Malware (STUP1Ds & F0OLs)

Offline aHobbit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,256
  • Think HARDER - HOLLOW Heads! No FO0Ls Please!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #33 on: Jan 19, 2008 at 10:05 PM »
To make a long discussion short, the claim of people about break-in in cable, amps, and video gear can easily be put to test even without measurements.

I have lifted one of the most helpful thread created in pdvd - Read & learn the real issue - http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=47979.420


there have been one anecdote where one high-end peddler confidently declared he can identify his amp from any amp in the market because it sounded the best. Of course, come the D-day, put him into blind listening with his fave amp and a cheapy one - LESSON LEARNED (with scratching head), he cant identify which is which!


the next one is - http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

a high end amp compared with cheap amp and those believers of sound differences have to go home trashing the lie that they held so dearly in audio by FAITH!


My challenge is simple, no need of measuring tools and can prove the following:
(1) will validate if there is sound difference with matz amp broken for more than 6 months and one new directly out of the box
(2) will validate if one has good memory of audio
(3) will validate if one has golden ears in audio
(4) can be extended as to prove if a broken-in cable has difference with new one directly out of the box

PDVD will embark in an endeavor for all the audio world to judge. The process:

(1) Get 1 matz amp broken-in for more than 6 months & another out of the box (new)
make a switching between 2 amps randomly, with matz writing what he thinks is playing (the broken-in or the new one) - 50 times
(2) we will use his speaker, player, cable, listenin environment and his music of choice
(3) If one scored 95-100% accurate, he has golden ears, and break-in is true
(4) If one scored less 80%, then everything is tantamount to guessing game
(5) If one score below 75%, then he is not sure which one is playing.

The same can be done for a cable broken-in for 500 hours & 1 directly out of the box.

This can also be done to Panasonic plasma/LCD, comparing those broken-in and new out of the box.

As TonyT stated in audio Lies thread
the reason that we need benchmarks is so that we can make comparisons between audio equipment. our senses can not be trusted, that's why we measure.
but in the end, everyone is free to be fooled by one's senses, hearing is one of them. ;D ;D ;D

and I add - viewing as well!


O, GAME KA NA BA?
« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2008 at 10:17 PM by aHobbit »
Anti PDVD Malware (STUP1Ds & F0OLs)

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #34 on: Jan 20, 2008 at 10:48 AM »
As far as audio equipment are concerned, I'm one of those who don't believe in break-in for the purpose of optimizing performance.  And I've had audio gear since 1978.

After prolonged use, the only difference I notice on my audio gear is on my subwoofer.  Not necessarily better, just different.  In fact, I think the sub sounds worse because the volume level increases with time (although others would consider that to be an improvement).  A periodic re-adjustment of the sub's volume is sufficient to recalibrate it.

I acknowledge that I'm not in a position to speak for anyone else.  If others say they hear a difference after break-in, then that's fine with me.  Sure, some of them might not really be hearing any difference, but who knows, there could also be others who can really detect a difference.

As far as TVs are concerned, I conducted a break-in period on my plasma not to optimize performance but to avoid phosphor burn problems, just in case.  Although I didn't notice any appreciable difference in picture quality after break-in, the eagle-eyed might be able to detect some difference, since phosphors naturally degrade with use.



the next one is - http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

That's a good link.  (Although the author really needs to learn how to spell  :D)

A majority of the test subjects (24 out of 38) did in fact notice a difference in the 2 setups.  The only problem is that the result for 14 of them was not what they expected  :D .

Nevertheless, 10 of them chose the high-end setup as the better sounding one.
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2008 at 03:55 PM by barrister »

Offline Ctlim

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,567
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #35 on: Jan 20, 2008 at 01:43 PM »
this is interesting. im a believer in experience, but I also believe that if its not in the manual then its probably not true.

i use a DLS A6 and A4 as my automotive power amps, i was never told that they need break in.  ???
and they are even more expensive than alot of HTequipment...

Offline oweidah

  • Trade Count: (+61)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,933
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 633
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #36 on: Jan 20, 2008 at 04:33 PM »
to each his own, subjectivists / objectivists ; branded/generic cables ics ; break-in burn-in/out of the box etc never shall the twain meet  ;D

for me, its my wallet/pocket and ears that matters for at the end of the day, I and not the experts pundits get to enjoy or gets pissed off with how my gears perform.  ;D  ;D  ;D

sa warmth naman, basta may synergy happy. matching-matching lang mga tsong ;D

1 vs. 100? k lang who cares? game na!!!

Offline audiojunkie

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,398
  • >>|<< OB - Dipole Rules >>|<<
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #37 on: Jan 20, 2008 at 05:41 PM »
 ::) Sa palagay ko kilangan na palitan ang title ng thread na ito...  ;D  ;D  ::)
Anthem CD1
Anthem Pre1
Audio Linear TT
Ortofon Rondo Red
Theta Dac
GTA SE-40 Amp
JBL L7
AudioQuest

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #38 on: Jan 20, 2008 at 11:57 PM »
OK lang siguro.

The topic is "I need my setup to sound warm". 

One suggested solution is to break in the amp to optimize it and make it sound warmer. 

The present controversy is whether a break-in period can make an amp sound warm or not.
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2008 at 11:59 PM by barrister »

Offline aHobbit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,256
  • Think HARDER - HOLLOW Heads! No FO0Ls Please!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #39 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 12:31 PM »
...
for me, its my wallet/pocket and ears that matters for at the end of the day, I and not the experts pundits get to enjoy or gets pissed off with how my gears perform.  ;D  ;D  ;D
...

correct ka jan ... if talks are subjective enough, we should be happy coexisting with our own feel of how our music (video) should be

fair & share, truth & consequences, experiences & subjectivities ... I dont want to be techies myself, unless forced to be ... sori po, baka makatulong lang naman sa mga naghahanap ng kasagutan ng hindi nabubutasan ng malaki sa bulsa :) ... to make your sound warm, either change your speaker, or change your amp, or check your source, or make a tone adjustment by experimenting on cable, or just roll your bass/treble control for a second or 2.
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 12:40 PM by aHobbit »
Anti PDVD Malware (STUP1Ds & F0OLs)

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #40 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 01:03 PM »
O, GAME KA NA BA?

Sure, but why only me? Let other members join the fun! Venue is prepared already!

But just to ensure the effort wont end in futility (as I have been warned).

First show me any thread where you bowed down or conceded from a debate graciously. I have been in this site for some time now & I cant seem to remember one that didnt end with people just shutting up to prevent any more aggravation from you.

If there is none, well obviously HISTORY (not science) dictates there is no point in proving anything to you. Mas worth it pa for other members.  I will still continue to do the blind test for other members though... promise.

Also who would remember a small-time test like this?
There has to be something significant! Lets up the ante! I am betting you a hybrid that the difference will be heard. If nobody hears a difference between the new & old, you pay the hybrid's full SRP!!! If not, you go home with a FREE hybrid amp!

What do you lose? you dont believe in break in right?

GAME ka na ba?

sige na please! (I have a heavier wager btw, if you agree to the above)

Quote
50 times

Come on, thats overdoing it! Or are you sweating from your side of the keyboard that I might win if only 10 times is asked? All I & the other members need to hear is if there is a difference in sonic properties between the 2, thats easy. Why 50 times? 90% ? Its too obvious bro.  :D

Kinakabahan ka ano?  :D hehehe

I acknowledge that I'm not in a position to speak for anyone else.  If others say they hear a difference after break-in, then that's fine with me.  Sure, some of them might not really be hearing any difference, but who knows, there could also be others who can really detect a difference.

Thanks sir. I like the way you think, very unassuming of other people.

I am sure you are one of those who have read & practice "The 7 habbits of Highly Effective People". The "win-win" chapter! some people need to read this book badly  ;D

« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 02:30 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #41 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 02:20 PM »
There has to be something significant! Lets up the ante! I am betting you a hybrid that the difference will be heard.

sige na please! (I have a heavier wager btw, if you agree to the above)

Sir Matz is too generous.  Bakit si sir Matz lang ang may pusta?  The only ones who should have nothing to lose are the other participants, but sir aHobbit should be required to lay down his own sporting wager.



First, appoint an arbitrator acceptable to both parties.

The arbitrator will formulate ground rules acceptable to both parties.  Both parties shall likewise agree that the arbiter's decision is final.

After the parties agree on the terms and conditions, a written agreement is drafted and finalized with the approval of both parties.

Before the proceedings begin, both sign the written agreement, then turn over their respective bets to the custody of the arbitrator.

After the winner is declared by the arbitrator, he turns over both bets to the custody of the winner.



Now that's more interesting.
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 03:52 PM by barrister »

Offline aHobbit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,256
  • Think HARDER - HOLLOW Heads! No FO0Ls Please!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #42 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 02:28 PM »
am sorry, it is not about bowing out of arguments ... so the thread show is uncalled for (I can argue with reason on this but am not into it at this time) ... it is about claims ...

cant go for your hybrid against other power amps ... with it, will need professional help to calibrate both amps at exactly equal levels ... but this has been done and documented in the past in a more credible test endeavors, do we need to repeat it?

why bet ... proving a break-in is already a wager in your behalf, and for the rest who think it exist (but your 5-channel is priced reasonably, i may have second thought  :) ) ...

10 times is not conclusive ... memory is exact ...

di naman ako kinakabahan ... and why should I ... you are to prove your claims, and I dont except to reiterate what has been the technical findings ... will just run a good analog signal sweep to both to ensure  both has no 'defects' in the output to force difference ... the cable break-in can be tested easier with less preparation

On the spirit of fun, as matrixhifi did it, let this be a good way to exercise reasons and senses ... meet new friends ... validate ... not to downgrade any person but to uplift our awareness of the hobby ... sorry guys if such questions runs counter to whatever you have

believe me, its not about me, but about the technial facts freely available to everybody via the internet

As a parting shot, i lifted again a post in another thread what a burn-in is all about:

yes, this is the general idea, and wittingly or unwittingly this is what sellers capitalise upon...they regale us with with propaganda, este one liners...my favorite was "we bring it back alive!" below a famous brand just behind the front page of the AUDIO magazines in the 80's to 90's......they come up with practices that are clearly loaded against the consumer, such as 100 hours burn-in is needed to bring out the sound....now why do i neeed to buy something that i will have to wait 100 hours before i enjoy? having worked in the  semiconductor industry for 15 years, i know for a fact that burn-in is applied to military grade products to uncover infantile mortality/out of spec devices before they go out the manufacturing door! now these audio vendors highjacked this legitimate process and their motive is very clear, to hostage the buyers to hold on to  their products while buyers gets accostumed to the sound of their products. now this leads to backlash, so after 100 days you see them up for sale in the buy and sell section. i wish vendors instead do the 100hours burn-in to uncover those units that will be put up for sale later.... ;D ;D ;D
as i recall, in the old days, we buy dynacos70's, hook them up with lampcords to speakers, use made up rca interconnects and listen and enjoy! and we buy them for keeps!
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 03:06 PM by aHobbit »
Anti PDVD Malware (STUP1Ds & F0OLs)

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #43 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 02:34 PM »

I recall that it was sir aHobbit who issued the challenge, not sir Matz.

Sir Matz and I were merely fine-tuning the terms and conditions of the challenge previously issued.  ;)

Offline aHobbit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,256
  • Think HARDER - HOLLOW Heads! No FO0Ls Please!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #44 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 02:52 PM »
yup ... and I dont have to prove it ... and even my presence is not at all required if the intent is to really come up with a credible findings. In your privacy, you can also do this with the help of your trusted friends.


to prove that there is no difference is to say there is none ... no need to do the listening test

to prove that there is ... you've got to prove it by whatever it takes ...

in jurisprudence, (I heard it somewhere), you do not prove who did not commit the crime (negative) ... you have to prove who committed the crime


I suggest the arbitrator should be composed of technical (objective persons) and subjective persons. We need oscilloscope for initial test and cable switchers for source level &  speaker level ...

« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 02:58 PM by aHobbit »
Anti PDVD Malware (STUP1Ds & F0OLs)

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #45 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 03:36 PM »
thank you sir Barrister. I was already looking for your "just compensation" for being the arbiter.  ;D

I recall that it was sir aHobbit who issued the challenge, not sir Matz.

Sir Matz and I were merely fine-tuning the terms and conditions of the challenge previously issued.  ;)


Truth be told (I swear!) I have already decided to just shut up to your claims & ignore/respect what you think, that was until you issued the challenge.

I mean, cant objectivity & subjectivity be allowed to coexist in this site? Thats all I am asking for, One does not need to subjugate the other in order to be the victor. I believe both can be practiced and believed in. Think WIN WIN: 7 aHobbits of Highly Effective People  ;D. Not everything has to be win- lose. You dont need to pull someone down like a crab to win. We can both win.

Thats what I meant by Eboneee & Ivoreee. And I tried to practice that by also accepting your claims, didnt I?

There are 2 analysis in Stock market, the Fundamentals & the Technicals. None of the 2 can guarantee you making the right moves w/ stocks. You have to analyze both to make a conclusion. In the end, market results can still be unpredictable. (GRRRR, bagsak ang stocks ngayon! hehe)

If someone wants to share a subjective observation, please let them.. w/o questioning them on scientific methods , etc. w/c you very well know deep inside that they cant answer back scientifically anyway. Its feels like a trap question for gloating pleasure.

I have to admit, the worst part I cannot accept is the condescending "you are all stupid victims" portion. Dont you think this is also uncalled for? And how many times has done this been done? Almost all your posts thru the years have this context. Pardon me if I let my sensitvity down during that thread call, but it wasnt w/o purpose. In a way, it was for you to know what it feels what it is like to be needlessly judged. Golden rule... I even got sympathy SMS for my reaction. Proof that I am not alone.

Just try to do these at wiredstate, I was told they ban your account for such "where is your scientific proof" posts there. It kills so much of the joy we enjoy in audio.  

Peace bro. and my apologies again.
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 07:03 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline Ctlim

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,567
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #46 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 03:47 PM »
thats a great idea by matt. pdvd members will also pick between an out of the box amp and a broken in amp. using the same speaker.

may prize pa!!! game na yan!

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #47 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 03:58 PM »
 :D :D :D

Walang prize, siyempre.  The offer was only available to sir aHobbit, who already refused.


thank you sir Barrister. I was already looking for your "just compensation" for being the arbiter.  ;D

:D  Hindi ako puwede, sir.  I'm biased  ;)  Remember, I disagree with your view. 

But I can disagree without being disagreeable.  I hope others would do the same.  :)
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 03:59 PM by barrister »

Offline praktikal

  • Trade Count: (+37)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,711
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #48 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 05:35 PM »
sali ako!  ;D

"fresh" pa kase ang tenga ko e, hehe... i'm not exposed to the "real world" of this hobby so for sure walang bias. when and where ba? gusto ko rin syempre malaman kung talagang may diff between a broken-in unit and not.

Game Na!

Offline audiojunkie

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,398
  • >>|<< OB - Dipole Rules >>|<<
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #49 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 06:18 PM »
Gusto ko rin sanang mag-comment....  ::)   :o I keep it to myself na lang...  :o baka ma-question pa opinion ko basi lang sa experience coz I'm not a tech. person....  ;D  ;D  :D
Anthem CD1
Anthem Pre1
Audio Linear TT
Ortofon Rondo Red
Theta Dac
GTA SE-40 Amp
JBL L7
AudioQuest

Offline aHobbit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,256
  • Think HARDER - HOLLOW Heads! No FO0Ls Please!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #50 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 07:08 PM »
stocks are not exact science ... market forces are at play ... the best player are those closest to where the latest info is prior to public disclosure ... can be manipulated as well  ;) ... wag ka lang pahuhuli

I did not refuse the prize ... it is just it is not necessary in the exercise

I dont pretend to be techie in thing which I am not ... so I just give subjective findings ... but I dont provide subjective findings if the required info is technical ... both can co exist in their respective domain

But I think I got your idea ... let people say what they want and the reader accept it as it is without asking why ... and ban those asking for a technical basis for such ...

anyway ... answers are just at your fingertips, and for everybody to try ... it is not rocket science to switch amps (or to switch cables), just dont cheat  ;D ... my apology for those seemed 'affected' by my posts ... as usual, another boring office day!  :D

OK, lets go back enjoying our music!   :) My X1 is not warm sounding - am in the middle of the lounge  8)
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 07:14 PM by aHobbit »
Anti PDVD Malware (STUP1Ds & F0OLs)

Offline rascal101

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,368
  • Naraniag nga aldaw kinyayo amin
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #51 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 07:25 PM »
I agree that for mechanical parts there is break in period.

For electrical components, there is burn-in period as the failure rate follows a bath tub curve. This curve basically shows that failure rate during during infancy is high, after the burn-in period it goes low, then after some more time the failure rate becomes high again. In light of this, it is always good practice to do burn-in to minimize infant mortality failures on devices.

That being said, electronic appliances will behave as specified unless the individual electronic components changes its performance. I am not so sure about our subjective assesment but bad sounding can become good sounding depending on how much time we spend listening to it.
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 07:26 PM by rascal101 »

Offline frootloops

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+252)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,630
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 19
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #52 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 07:50 PM »
After lurking in this thread for some time, now I ask myself, How can I live without PDVD?  ;D

A debate / argument is sometimes healthy (sometimes only ha ;D ) in a discussion since it brings out the best knowledge and ideas in each person. Now whether I will believe it or not, thats for me to keep. But it was a healthy reading.

Belief in audio is a never ending process, it is like a religion wherein two people with different understanding will take weeks or even months in arguing just to prove their belief. But in the end, it will be the listeners/followers who will have the final say.

Oops...naunahan ako ni sir rascal, di pa tapos boxing... ;D

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #53 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 10:08 PM »
A debate / argument is sometimes healthy (sometimes only ha ;D ) in a discussion since it brings out the best knowledge and ideas in each person. Now whether I will believe it or not, thats for me to keep.

Why keep it to yourself?  It's perfectly OK to post contrary opinions as long as you're not too cocky about it.

Pag may nayabangan sa iyo, e di siyempre, giyera patani talaga :D.  Pag nag-react yung taong nainsulto, hindi natin siya masisisi. 

There was one case where a lawyer insulted a judge in open court.  The Supreme Court said the lawyer's actions were justified because he was provoked by the judge who first insulted the lawyer.   :D :D :D

Paraphrasing Hosea 8:7 ("For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind"), the Supreme Court held:

If any one is to blame for the language used by the petitioner, it is the judge himself who has made insulting remarks in his orders, which must have provoked petitioner, and the judge below has nothing to blame but himself.  If a judge desires not to be insulted he should start using temperate language himself; he who sows the wind will reap a storm. (Fernandez vs. Bello, G.R. No. L-14277, April 30, 1960)

« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2008 at 10:09 PM by barrister »

Offline rascal101

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,368
  • Naraniag nga aldaw kinyayo amin
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #54 on: Jan 21, 2008 at 11:16 PM »
Mahirap naman kasi kung tahimik tayo  ;D Paminsan minsan kailangan din magsabi ang nasasaisip.

Ang buhay sa PDVD minsan tahimik minsan magulo  ;D Pero ok lang basta walang samahan ng loob  ;D ;D ;D

Offline ricky

  • Trade Count: (+68)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,128
  • Duh?
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 544
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #55 on: Jan 22, 2008 at 05:08 AM »
Ang lalaki nyo na mga batang isip pa kayo ;D Im not siding with anyone even if I know one is at fault. I dont think there is anything wrong by suggesting to wait for the break-in period to end before spending your hard earn cash to eagerly correct what you're presently hearing . Its like suggesting to give it some time,let it breathe  a while before concluding and spending anything  ;) Ang mahirap dito sa thread natin napakadami na ng experts ::) When I first joined this site I made a mistake of asking the same question and if I remember correctly 2 guys were fast on the draw to suggest I replace my speakers and the other one is to replace my pre/pro-amp combination :-[ This were gurus na ha, what a couple of a-holes suggesting such stupid things ;D even without hearing and considering other gears in my set-up :D So I went back to the store where I bought the pre/pro-amp and ask the store owner what he thinks about the suggestion,His reply quick reply was not to listen to these guys and just use the gears as it is. True enough after 1 week I liked the sound already without replacing anything. But it did not save me anything  :P bec I still bought  a separate tube audio set-up after that ;D ;D ;D My suggeation-There's nothing wrong being polite in disagreeing with anyone esp if its a fellow member 8) You can disagree anytime but never never discredit the guy otherwise expect the retribution ;)

Offline qguy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,762
  • Usher/Rythmik/S
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 66
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #56 on: Jan 22, 2008 at 06:08 AM »
if this event ever this pushes through,  may I join ?

When I am comparing cables, what I do is i use a Y jack connected to the Source,  connect Cable 1 to AUX and Cable 2  to CD. This makes comparing cables much easier... just switch sources back and forth.. same concept can be applied to the AMP "shootout" using a DPDT switch.




« Last Edit: Jan 22, 2008 at 06:44 AM by qguy »

Offline John E.

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,382
  • God is good all the time!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #57 on: Jan 22, 2008 at 07:30 AM »
 :) until now i am still enjoying this community! walang kupas dami mo matututunan.

(i would also love to be an audience if the experiment pushes through, since i am also new and learning in this hobby (i also want  to audition the BADA at work!  ;D) but if everyone decided to be mannerly considerate to other comments and ideas and not challenge one's assumption and competence, then it would also be fine, since we should all mutually  coexist in accepting one's comment and should not discredit members opinion.)

 :D i hope busabos was able to get good advise with his question  ;D




You'll Always Go Back To This Hobby!

Offline theblue

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 249
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #58 on: Jan 22, 2008 at 08:15 AM »
Tsk tsk tsk. Nakakapagod tlaga makipagtalo. hehe. Gurus to gurus. Both have their own points nasainyo nlang kung anu palagay no mas tama.

My point is, we all learn a lot.  ;D
Denon 1912 + Yamaha NS-777, Dynaudio Audience 40, HTPC i7 7700k, 24GB, Nvidia GTX 1080 ti, LG 4K

Offline frootloops

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+252)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,630
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 19
Re: I need my setup to sound warm
« Reply #59 on: Jan 22, 2008 at 09:19 AM »
Ang lalaki nyo na mga batang isip pa kayo ;D

LOL!! :D  :D Iba ka talaga sir ricky;)

Actually, both sides are believable. It's not that someone just got his ideas from thin air. But then again, its like the internet, you dont believe eveything you read. The only solution is to try it yourself and not just rely on what other people say. As for me, what I hear is what I hear.  ;)

Why keep it to yourself?  It's perfectly OK to post contrary opinions as long as you're not too cocky about it.

Pag may nayabangan sa iyo, e di siyempre, giyera patani talaga :D.  Pag nag-react yung taong nainsulto, hindi natin siya masisisi. 


sir barrister, it is sometimes hard to give opinions when you know that your only ally is your left and right ears, and not those numbers,techies being mentioned by the guru's. Like what ricky mentioned, a number of members here can give opinion and suggestions with a drop of a hat even though they haven't seen nor heard your system, or even considering your room treatment. If I say my BOSE 301 sounded better than the B&W 602, like what you said, giyera patani na ini!  ;D