Topic: I need my setup to sound warm

[MAtZTER]

Me market e. For the rich, buy anything you want. Never mind the reasons. But for poor audio newbies, I believe that we should buy gears for the right reasons.

As a newbie, I went to the buy & sell section to get great deals in used IC's.

Pano kung walang home audition? Walang mahiraman? This is often the case.

I remember the advice from What HiFi: develop a good relationship with your dealer. Its not about getting the lowest price, but getting the best service (home audition being one). Unfortunately some here demonize dealers as a profession  . They would make a great addition to the next elections, digging dirt out of political enemies. 

Oops teka peace ha... joke lang 

[RU9]

Unfortunately some here demonize dealers as a profession  .

I do not think so. What the motive? To protect newbies from being taken advantage of dealers masquerading as users. Where do you divide the line between sharing the truth or trying to sell your products?

[MAtZTER]

Where do you divide the line between sharing the truth or trying to sell your products?

Ah, let me show you a fine example of that:

See Interconnects for pre-out to power amp. Any suggestions? thread

here is an economical alternative:

try to get IXOS studio interconnects 3 meters is just 1.2k

get some RCA's and then split the 3 meter pair into the 5 you need.

You may even split the IC in 2, use a 3m length for the subwoofer, then split the other 3 meter into 5x60cm length.

This guy still recommend other cheaper competitor's products despite having a similar product!

This one was right up your nose the whole time:

As a newbie, I went to the buy & sell section to get great deals in used IC's.

Want more examples? I can give you a list of people who PM the guy for advice. Ask them. Take advantage? Relax bro, dont be too paranoid. The world is such a beautiful place and not all people are evil. But it seems you are already biased on that viewpoint, so I dont think anything above will help  .

Peace! 

Remember: While we have time, let us do good brother! 

[barrister]

Someone please PM me what kesehoda means? My lowest grades in school was always Pilipino. 

Post na lang natin ang sagot para mas masaya .

Lowest grades, Pilipino?  I believe you!    

"Kesehoda" is gay lingo for "I don't care", from the Spanish "Que se joda".  Don't use the expression if you don't want to embarrass yourself. 

First of all, "I don't give a d**n" might be a more accurate translation, to capture the rudeness of the conveyed meaning.  'Ika nga sa Harry Potter, it's not a term you would hear in civilized conversation  .

Secondly, the expression was popular about 20 to 30 years ago.  It's terribly out-of-date if you use it now; and people might think you're older than you look  . 

[MAtZTER]

Oweidah's age is being revealed. 

Ah, there was no gay linggo subject in HS or college, so my ignorance is excused.

[reynold]

You want your cable to "warm up" your system or you just want a warm system?

Maybe having an expensive cable or gears will give us some "Warm Feeling"

Pano kung walang home audition? Walang mahiraman? This is often the case.

...then visit the marketplace, yan ang isa sa dahilan kung bakit nagkaroon ng marketplace ang PinoyDvd 

[bumblebee]

...
I remember the advice from What HiFi: develop a good relationship with your dealer. Its not about getting the lowest price, but getting the best service (home audition being one). Unfortunately some here demonize dealers as a profession  . They would make a great addition to the next elections, digging dirt out of political enemies.  

Oops teka peace ha... joke lang  

I think dealers can only afford to lend their gears to a select few, the real hobbyists. Not average users who just want something better than a HTIB. And that's perfectly understandable. We're talking about expensive gears here, things that won't be replaced in years to come. Dealers risk sales if they accomodate everyone.

[bumblebee]

...then visit the marketplace, yan ang isa sa dahilan kung bakit nagkaroon ng marketplace ang PinoyDvd 

Me home audition at hiraman sa marketplace?

[MAtZTER]

I think dealers can only afford to lend their gears to a select few, the real hobbyists. Not average users who just want something better than a HTIB. And that's perfectly understandable. We're talking about expensive gears here, things that won't be replaced in years to come. Dealers risk sales if they accomodate everyone.

Then I will lend you my IC's. You live nearby I think? or was that Cire?

Disclaimer: I AM NOT a dealer! 

[reynold]

Me home audition at hiraman sa marketplace?

If you can bring your gears to the seller's house or vise versa bro, it depends naman on your agreement with the seller e

But what i really meant on my previous post is that... if you bought something from some audio shop and you're not happy with your purchase, then you can sell it on the marketplace, then buy again until such time that you are happy with your new purchase, almost all of the members here including me have experience on something like that... that's why there is "S.A.R.S"

[macdon]

I do not think so. What the motive? To protect newbies from being taken advantage of dealers masquerading as users. Where do you divide the line between sharing the truth or trying to sell your products?

RU9 - I certainly understand your point sir.
However, if your questions above pertains to sir Matz - may kwento ako jan

I still consider myself a newbie in this forum - been here since last November. Since then, I must've read a million threads & have asked the same number of questions as well. One of the persons I like to bug the hell out of is si sir Matz - kasi natutuwa talaga ako sa kanya.........not because of his stories but because I'm amazed at the sheer volume of products that this guy must've tried. Its certainly more products than I'll ever try or willing to buy in my lifetime.

Sir Matz would answer about his product if I have a question about his product and he doesnt mention about it if my questions doesnt point to his wares. To be honest, just a few days ago I asked him about a particular poweramp in our buy&sell section - the Rotel 985. Since he has experienced this amp - I went ahead to PM him about any feedback & my concern about it being old - he just said "poweramps last a lifetime, go for it!"
I'm sure he could've said - "hey man, I sell a Bada poweramp thats bnew, stronger than that Rotel you're looking at and about the same price" - but he didnt.

While I've seen some folks doubt his motives on this board - I just see him as what he is - a hardcore HT/Audio enthusiast that loves to share his knowledge and experience.
......and whether coincidence  if he himself is a dealer or not, I just see it as an alternative to those gears sold in AV shops.

I say the more the merrier!
 

[oweidah]

Someone please PM me what kesehoda means? My lowest grades in school was always Pilipino. 

Oweidah's age is being revealed. 

Ah, there was no gay linggo subject in HS or college, so my ignorance is excused.

como estas tu? - kumusta
que se joda - kesehoda
habla espanol?
di na kasi uso mexican telenovela; korean na

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=que+se+joda&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=29768

[aHobbit]

  but timber, organics, etc etc (different taste) is so vast a subjective issue to be measured.

timber? Di ba timbre?
...

My finger is bad 

...
Organics? First time i heard this kind of audiophile lingo.

Welcome to our DIYaudio world, Mr. Post#7

I borrowed the word from my idol in DIYaudio.com - am not the original 

[aHobbit]

So bro if people in Europe who use mostly European brand amps like HK maybe or Marantz will define "warm" based on these amps and brand the japanese amps like Onkyo, Pioneer, etc. as "bright" and the japanese who likes their own amps define "warm" based on what they hear from their own amps, then it follows that there will be no universal definition and measurement of these terms when used in the audio world.

 

Sir Jerix, its hard to correlate warmness to an amplifier, because the final sound of warmness is in the speakers' output (where the ear, or the measuring instrument is to measure the warmness itself).

I have not heard some europeans in the DIYaudio concluding Japanese brands are typically bright. Or probably, warmness or brightness is not well understood (undefined)

[aHobbit]

...
Yung mga A students at wiz kids namin dati sa batch, di sila kasing successfull ng mga B students namin. Ang lalaki ng mga kumpanya ngayon at malaking natutulong sa economy. Siguro gullible nga sila kaya nakarating sila ng ganyan.
...

You are right fita  . It is because we filipinos (majority) correlate success in life as owning a house & lot, and job security. But some people now learn our neighbors, entrepreneurship is the key.

Those B students with failing grades in school found difficulty in landing a secured job - so they have to fight it out early on and became the entrepreneurs, mas malaki kita! The A students became professors, teachers, and the academe 

Now, our teachers are gone abroad, and we currently have a big glut in the local teaching profession, and courses in teaching are slowly closing down due no enrolees anymore!    Teachers' are becoming an extinct profession.

But be careful, amount of money is not an indication of intelligence ... nowadays, it looks like an indication of corruption (deception)!!!      (b*s*, m*n*t*r, G*A  , "high end" audio magics) ... they exploited gullibility of their people/consumers selling warm components (para di OT      )!!!

[aHobbit]

I do not think so. What the motive? To protect newbies from being taken advantage of dealers masquerading as users. Where do you divide the line between sharing the truth or trying to sell your products?

It's like I demonize them     

Somehow, in commercialism, like that of Monster, telling the truth can really hurt business. To minimize the impact, you have to make counters, to the point of arm-twisting (the commercial way). So argue the thing you dont understand (aka technique of anti-global warming entities) and muddle the discussion. The more doubts injected, the better for the business.

If I am selling, either the person should not know the truth so he will buy my reasoning. In the normal sales floor, make the best setup for things (with higher yield) you want to move fast.

To some people (I really dont understand them  ), if you dont understand the techies behind, then at least believe the hype!     

Does eating chocolate ice cream affects performance of a car? Try it for yourself, and identify which flavor affects car performance!        So, will your other cable be better than the decent speaker cable that can be supplied at cheaper cost and provide warmer sound?      There is nothing wrong experimenting and experiencing it - only be sure you know what you are doing and you get the right conclusion what gives!     

[jerix]

Sir Jerix, its hard to correlate warmness to an amplifier, because the final sound of warmness is in the speakers' output (where the ear, or the measuring instrument is to measure the warmness itself).

I have not heard some europeans in the DIYaudio concluding Japanese brands are typically bright. Or probably, warmness or brightness is not well understood (undefined)

Bro Ahobbit yeah, I agree with you that we really cannot make a categorical statement that this amp is warm or bright so to speak because the final test is when you hear it from the speaker. The listener has its own hearing definition of what is warm or what is bright, etc. my statement was just an exagerration of a situation where a certain group of people define the term based on available equipment in their locality. So i said, Europeans may define a european brand of amp as warm, while a japanese amp bright, in a similar situation  Japanese may also find their own amp warm and a european amp bright. When the term warm is used, it is more of something nice to hear, in contradiction to the term bright which usually means harsh, fatiguing to the ear, etc. So the reaction of groups or users is understandable -- love your own.

Just like in our community, japanese brands have been generally branded as bright amps while european amps are branded as warm sounding amps.

[aHobbit]

...
a situation where a certain group of people define the term based on available equipment in their locality.
...

In fact, this is the state of general "high end" audiophilia, where most discussion does not revolve on sound engineering principles (because majority of them are non-technicals), but rather on subjectivities being correlated to science (instead of just human senses, matter of appreciating art).

Thus, you can hear people describing amp as warm or bright (and other hollow adjectives) - without mention what speaker are they refering the amp with (point of reference): because amp alone can not be that bright or warm - thus, the final measure of (undefined) warmness or brightness is from the speakers' point of view. This is also true with those IC, cable, etc etc.

So for them, (simply) lumping those effects to whichever component they want to pin down works very well - simple case of muddling the whole issues. warm amp, warm cable, warm IC, warm LC, warm powercords, warm outlets, warm sound = warm pockets of the sellers! 

Of course, they really need to muddle the issues to sell their ideas or their products. That's part of commercialism! If you still don't realize this, either you were born just yesterday or you entered a hobby you did not (care to learn nor) understand - basta nakinig lang sa kwento at bumili! 

[reynold]

Thus, you can hear people describing amp as warm or bright (and other hollow adjectives) - without mention what speaker are they refering the amp with (point of reference): because amp alone can not be that bright or warm - thus, the final measure of (undefined) warmness or brightness is from the speakers' point of view. This is also true with those IC, cable, etc etc.

Hi sir aHobbit

If this is the case... why does my Onkyo Liverpool speakers sounded different when i test it with my previous gears, w/c is almost the same in power (Onkyo and Yamaha receivers and Victor and Onkyo Integrated Amp), using the same cd player, using the same cheap speaker cables and interconnects from raon? Sorry but i'm a little bit lost when you say that Amplifiers doesn't affect the warmness and brightness of the sounds...

[Superman]

...in my limited experience, each and every component plays a role regarding the warmness, brightness or neutrality of the sound of your system...you change one, you change also the over-all sound character

[aHobbit]

Hi sir aHobbit

If this is the case... why does my Onkyo Liverpool speakers sounded different when i test it with my previous gears, w/c is almost the same in power (Onkyo and Yamaha receivers and Victor and Onkyo Integrated Amp), using the same cd player, using the same cheap speaker cables and interconnects from raon? Sorry but i'm a little bit lost when you say that Amplifiers doesn't affect the warmness and brightness of the sounds...

As you have quoted, you can now tell a warm or bright sound because you are now refering it to your set of speaker (the Liverpool) - but can you now tell which one of the 2 statements is correct based on your experience of hearing a warm sound:

(1) amp 1 is a warm sounding amplifier ??
(2) liverpool is a warm sounding speaker ??


As to your question why your Liverpool sounds different with receivers (Onkyo/Yamaha) & integrated (Victor/Onkyo), I can not categorically answer it without the profile and comparison test you did in listening.

- setting of your receivers (what vanilla DSP are engaged), what connections utilized (optical?), at what volume level compared (power rating could be relevant here)

- setting of your integrateds (what controls are engaged), at what volume level compared (power rating could be relevant here)

PS: receivers are not simply amplifiers. if you connect via coax or optical, understand it goes to their respective choice of DSP chips and tone shapers which forces differences in sound. If they are connected to RCA (analog) and at tone=off (or flat), then you can rightfully compare the amplifier sound - provided they are on equal loudness level. Take note a "-10db" on one is not the same as the "-10db" of the other, this does not work this way!

On the amplifiers, for as long as tone=off (or flat), and played on same loudness level, you can rightfully compare them. Again, take note, a 9o'clock position of one is not the same as the 9o'clock of the other!

Amplifiers and receivers are rated with different input sensitivities which dictates the relative loudness you can derive from any amp even if the controls looks in the same setting.

[Ctlim]

warm"ness" is subjective. period.

a guy used to dai-ichi blasters, proline eq's & taiwan made pioneer and jbl 6X9s all his life might suddenly find entry level mordaunt carnivals the greatest speaker he's ever heard, while a more advanced user might have a totally different opinion.

i used to only listen to those alien looking components bought from anson and abensons, funny... because I've always had high end car audio. when my fascination for cars came to an end and I started on pdvd in 2006, the first speaker I bought was a floorstanding carnival 6 from mordaunt short... i thought it was the most awesome thing I had ever heard inside the house.

afterwhich, i started paying more attention to the stuff that my relatives had... B&O's, Bose, B&W's, Yamaha's etc etc.. throughout all the speakers I've bought, missions, dynaudio, jmlabs, wharfdale, acoustic energy, miller&kreisel, sonus faber, aurum cantus... i've come to realize, the best speaker isnt always the most expensive one. its the one that your ears fall in love with.

which brings me to an encounter with mr. lim when I was looking at some audio stuff at rockwell, a tangent cdp connected to a primaluna prologue tube amp and a mirage bookshelf speaker (or just correct me if I remembered the brand wrong).

after a couple of mins of listening, I said, I dont like it. it sounds too bright.

He was dumbfounded!!! I could FEEL the shock on his face. As if to tell me... SIRA BA TENGA MO?! But I couldn't help it, It was really what my ears were telling me. And all his years and years of experience couldn't convince me otherwise.... but he wasn't wrong. Hell, he may be right. But in the end, ako naman ang nakikinig e, so my ears must be KING.

Again, warm"ness" is subjective. Price has nothing to do with it.

(PS: just for reference, of all the speakers ive tried and owned, Dynaudio's are truly the most awesome. Whether on a tube amp, AVR or power amp; dvd player, cdp or tube cdp... IT DOES NOT DISAPOINT.... I'll even bet my money to match it versus the B&Ws, Focals and Monitor Audio's of the other members here... but then again, will their ears tell them what my speakers tell me??? probably not.)

[gisan925]

check also for loose speaker connections and polarities.

[iiinas]

warm"ness" is subjective. period.

a guy used to dai-ichi blasters, proline eq's & taiwan made pioneer and jbl 6X9s all his life might suddenly find entry level mordaunt carnivals the greatest speaker he's ever heard, while a more advanced user might have a totally different opinion.

i used to only listen to those alien looking components bought from anson and abensons, funny... because I've always had high end car audio. when my fascination for cars came to an end and I started on pdvd in 2006, the first speaker I bought was a floorstanding carnival 6 from mordaunt short... i thought it was the most awesome thing I had ever heard inside the house.

afterwhich, i started paying more attention to the stuff that my relatives had... B&O's, Bose, B&W's, Yamaha's etc etc.. throughout all the speakers I've bought, missions, dynaudio, jmlabs, wharfdale, acoustic energy, miller&kreisel, sonus faber, aurum cantus... i've come to realize, the best speaker isnt always the most expensive one. its the one that your ears fall in love with.

which brings me to an encounter with mr. lim when I was looking at some audio stuff at rockwell, a tangent cdp connected to a primaluna prologue tube amp and a mirage bookshelf speaker (or just correct me if I remembered the brand wrong).

after a couple of mins of listening, I said, I dont like it. it sounds too bright.

He was dumbfounded!!! I could FEEL the shock on his face. As if to tell me... SIRA BA TENGA MO?! But I couldn't help it, It was really what my ears were telling me. And all his years and years of experience couldn't convince me otherwise.... but he wasn't wrong. Hell, he may be right. But in the end, ako naman ang nakikinig e, so my ears must be KING.

Again, warm"ness" is subjective. Price has nothing to do with it.

(PS: just for reference, of all the speakers ive tried and owned, Dynaudio's are truly the most awesome. Whether on a tube amp, AVR or power amp; dvd player, cdp or tube cdp... IT DOES NOT DISAPOINT.... I'll even bet my money to match it versus the B&Ws, Focals and Monitor Audio's of the other members here... but then again, will their ears tell them what my speakers tell me??? probably not.)

very well said sir.