Topic: Speaker Cables - A Survey

[markcrenz]

That part I already know. But the difference seems to be audible still. Depende na siguro sa tao.

that part i'm sure you know, master! just sharing my ideas to others.

yup depende sa tao. but your use of the word "seems" indicates something. 

[ATJr.]

That part I already know. But the difference seems to be audible still. Depende na siguro sa tao.

IMHO, if you hear differences between speaker cables, then there must be something fundamentally wrong with your amplifier....

[Nelson de Leon]

halos wala naman diff ang mura at mahal na speaker cables. the difference in electrical properties between two same-sized wires is much less than that within the speakers themselves. sa capacitor pa lang, at 5% tolerance possible na ang 10% difference between left & right tweeter crossovers. add mo pa inductors, connectors, drivers, resistors, snake oil, magic coils, etc, lalamunin na nyan ang whatever difference there is between two wires.

I think mahal or mura should not be our reference in buying wires. IMHO, it should be more on build of the wire including manufacturing process.  Parang tngga yan King markcrenz, may purity and errors like bubbles. 

that part i'm sure you know, master! just sharing my ideas to others.

yup depende sa tao. but your use of the word "seems" indicates something. 

Seem:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/seem

 

IMHO, if you hear differences between speaker cables, then there must be something fundamentally wrong with your amplifier....

Like transparency and coloration of the amplifier?

[Conan]

IMHO, if you hear differences between speaker cables, then there must be something fundamentally wrong with your amplifier....

This is bullcrap. I recently upgraded my stereo speaker wires from gauge 16 to a more expensive gauge 14 and my speakers suddenly sounded like they lost details. I went back to the gauge 16 wires and the details came back. So something's wrong with my amplifier? 

[markcrenz]

@ Conan

Do you have electrical data of the two wires? From what I've read, high cable capacitance is not a problem for well-designed amplifiers but could cause a few unstable or borderline amplifiers to go into oscillation. Low power oscillation, even if ultrasonic, could affect the listening performance of a system and even affect the transients in music. It could give a false impression of a brighter (aka more detailed) sound but is in fact distortion introduced by the amplifiers inability to drive the load.

[Conan]

@ Conan

Do you have electrical data of the two wires? From what I've read, high cable capacitance is not a problem for well-designed amplifiers but could cause a few unstable or borderline amplifiers to go into oscillation. Low power oscillation, even if ultrasonic, could affect the listening performance of a system and even affect the transients in music. It could give a false impression of a brighter (aka more detailed) sound but is in fact distortion introduced by the amplifiers inability to drive the load.

Electrical data? No I don't. I just know that the latest speaker wire that I bought gave me a less detailed sound. My old gauge 14 "electrical cable" speaker wire sounds just like my other gauge 16 wire. These are less than 2 meters in length so I highly doubt that cable capacitance would be a factor.

[Conan]

So something's wrong with few months old Topping TP60 and Rotel RA04 amps?

What about Van Den Hull silver speaker cables which are marketed as speaker wires that will bring out a more detailed sound. So anyone who hears a difference with these wires also have something wrong with their amps? I heard a difference with them and I returned them because "masakit na sa taenga" yun sound niya with my system.

[markcrenz]

haha! you're very privileged to hear those differences. would you say it's a boon or a bane? 

[Conan]

haha! you're very privileged to hear those differences. would you say it's a boon or a bane?  

Well maybe I'm lucky to hear subtle differences (actually my experience with Van Den Hull Clearwater speaker wires were not subtle, it was very evident!) in sound, and these are not imagined as what other people would claim.  

[Onkyo606]

Interested po kasi ako malaman yung sa HT use, since yung sa dedicated audio alam ko madami gumagastos ng 4-5 digits per meter diyan.

sa akin sir ivan have no idea how much kase puro hand me down yung gamit ko

sa front L and R kimber 4TC na double run bale 14 ft sa left and 14 ft sa right, sa center naman around 2 meters cable na gawa ni cjtjader

sa surround tributaries di ko alam size pero mga 1 cm ang lapad nya

as mentioned, lahat bigay lang sa akin

[ATJr.]

This is bullcrap. I recently upgraded my stereo speaker wires from gauge 16 to a more expensive gauge 14 and my speakers suddenly sounded like they lost details. I went back to the gauge 16 wires and the details came back. So something's wrong with my amplifier? 

i usually never respond to opinions.....after all they are just opinions and needs to be respected......

[Conan]

i usually never respond to opinions.....after all they are just opinions and needs to be respected......

Well you stated your opinion:

 

IMHO, if you hear differences between speaker cables, then there must be something fundamentally wrong with your amplifier....Smiley

And it was completely contrary to my experience so that's why I spoke up. So you're saying that my experience is an opinion? I knew there was something inherently wrong with your logic.

[ATJr.]

Electrical data? No I don't.

then we really don't have anything to discuss......

[ATJr.]

And it was completely contrary to my experience so that's why I spoke up. So you're saying that my experience is an opinion?

no, yours is an anecdote..... lots of those floating around, no worries.....

[Conan]

then we really don't have anything to discuss......

And why the hell do I have to provide you with electrical data? I'm a simple person who enjoys audio and I noticed some quirks so I relayed my experience. Do I have to measure it to make it understandable to you? Hindi ka ba makaintindi ng simpleng kwento?

[Nelson de Leon]

This might get out of hand. Best resolved through ACTUAL A/B tests of wires and amps. Are you guys up to it? And para maging masaya ang A/B test gathering, let's make it a potbless. 

[mak_mak]

This might get out of hand. Best resolved through ACTUAL A/B tests of wires and amps. Are you guys up to it? And para maging masaya ang A/B test gathering, let's make it a potbless.  

im in...
sa mansion po nyo sir nelson...

[Nelson de Leon]

im in...
sa mansion po sir nelson...

Loko. Wag sa akin. Naka-horns ako.    Subtle difference lang sa akin.

[Conan]

This might get out of hand. Best resolved through ACTUAL A/B tests of wires and amps. Are you guys up to it? And para maging masaya ang A/B test gathering, let's make it a potbless. 

Oo ba, pero knowing Tony hindi yan darating. Inimbita na yan ni Les dati he's not interested daw to listen to his amps. Basta weekend game ako.

[Nelson de Leon]

I can bring an RTA for gain adjustment ng amp. Single source lang tayo. CD player only. The different interconnects, different speaker wires, and different amps. but let's try to limit it sa 4 types. Preferably same wattage ang amp.

[ninjababez®]

I can bring an RTA for gain adjustment ng amp. Single source lang tayo. CD player only. The different interconnects, different speaker wires, and different amps. but let's try to limit it sa 4 types. Preferably same wattage ang amp.

sama ako tapos entry ko yung raon speaker wire 
dapat double blind test.   

[ATJr.]

And why the hell do I have to provide you with electrical data? I'm a simple person who enjoys audio and I noticed some quirks so I relayed my experience. Do I have to measure it to make it understandable to you? Hindi ka ba makaintindi ng simpleng kwento?

ang hindi ko maintindihan ay kung bakit ka nagrereact sa mga opinions na taliwas sa yo as if inagawan ka ng candy...

you are right....i am not interested in your amps when you have to listen to cables.....

me, i listen to "music" only, not to capacitors, not to tubes and certainly not to cables..................

good luck on your blind testing......

[Conan]

ang hindi ko maintindihan ay kung bakit ka nagrereact sa mga opinions na taliwas sa yo as if inagawan ka ng candy...

you are right....i am not interested in your amps when you have to listen to cables.....

me, i listen to "music" only, not to capacitors, not to tubes and certainly not to cables..................

good luck on your blind testing......

Kasi ang yabang ng dating mo na parating ikaw ang tama at wala kang pakialam sa opinion o experience ng ibang tao na hindi katugma ng mga sinasabi mo. Matagal ko na napanpansin mga post mo dito sa forum. Hindi lang ako nagrereact kasi hindi ko thread or hindi ko kilala ang thread starter. Eh dito kaibigan ko si Stagea so nagreact ako. Hindi helpful kasi ang tono ng mga post mo dito sa Pinoy DVD. Magbibigay ka ng opinion mo na walang explanation o patnubay tapos ang taas ng "ere" mo porket marunong ka gumawa ng amplifier. I'm sure hindi lang ako ang nakakapansin niyan.

[ATJr.]

^hmmm, i get the same impression of you.... can't please every one....

[Conan]

^hmmm, i get the same impression of you.... can't please every one....

Excuse me I don't tell other people that their gear is defective when my opinion differs from theirs. Ikaw yun arrogante.

[ATJr.]

na segway na yung thread.......just let it go.....

in the end when you open up your speaker cables, you will find just copper and plastics in them....this is regardless of cost.....

[fattyacid]

A good read (that saved me a lot of moolah):

THE "TRUTH" ABOUT DIFFERENT SPEAKER CABLES
http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_verdadcables.htm

For the ones who are still totally convinced that the super-cables improve sound quality because they have a lower parasitic inductance than any other common cable, we will teach you how to build a low inductance cable using a common cable.

 Buy at any electronics shop a copper cable formed by 4 wires with an adequate diameter for the amplifier’s power (see Table N. 3), then connect “in parallel” two conductors as seen on Fig. 16.





 If you do not find a cable with 4 wires, you can buy two plates, then you connect them in parallel as seen of Fig. 16 and you keep the wires joined with some insulating tape every 10 cm.



 This way you will obtain a cable with a stray inductance from a minimum of 0,25 microHenry per meter to a maximum of 0,4 microHenry per meter. These are very similar characteristics to the expensive speaker cable’s characteristics

Update: Therefore I voted for 150 or less..

[Nelson de Leon]

Walang mangyayari sa arguments dito. Let's respect the TS na lang. Survey pa naman ito. Let's just open up a different topic for those who want to post their opinions re differences in cables and amps.

My stand is, regardless of cost, i believe in different manufacturing process ng conductive materials. I also believe na Iba ibang purity din ang mga conductors. So iba iba din ang electrical properties niya. Bakit pa nga ba gumagamit ng gold sa mga PCs natin kung pwede naman pala ang copper or silver.

Pero IMHO, best naman talaga ang A/B test. It will either prove or disprove the beliefs. Kailangan lang objective ang makikinig. No need for golden ears. Unless of course impaired or may diperensya ang hearing.    We can also start the A/B test by using test tones to see if which frequencies ang kayang madinig. Pero dapat may partida ang kagaya kong matanda  kasi as people grow old, yun mga high frequencies hindi na nagiging audible. 

[markcrenz]

speaker cable topics can really get hot, parang the unending tube vs ss or to biwire or not. 

[Nelson de Leon]

Oo nga eh. Never-ending. hindi nga lang din nasa cables ang factor, nasa listener din.