Author Topic: Playing Studio Master recordings (Read 4939 times)

lncc63 · « **on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 08:07 AM »

Was able to drop by AVShop yesterday, and Rey told me about this new DAC and how it could play Studio Master material now being sold on the internet but that I'd need to use a laptop. Actually, I already use my netbook at my office to play music though a Super Pro 707 DAC but I've not really paid more attention than ripping my CDs into FLAC format and playing them.

I've know for a long time that CDs are a lesser version of the original recordings. A CD is a 16-bit 44.1/48kHz encoding of the original Studio Master recording which is done at up to 24-bit 192kHz (according to Linn Records). DVD-A and SACD also provide superior recordings but finding them is difficult. With Studio Master recordings being sold online making the material a whole lot more accessible, it is now not a bad idea to pay attention to being able to play such. There are even multi-channel recordings (of course).

A few newbie questions:

1. "32-bit 192kHz" was mentioned but I cannot find such material at the sites selling music. Anyone know of these?
2. "Asynchronous USB", "jitter" - what do these manifest as?
3. Some NMTs have an optical output which can be connected to a DAC, can this be used to play such material?

Stagea · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 08:43 AM »

A netbook might not be powerful enough to handle the highest resolution formats. Most netbooks can handle upto 96/24 with an external dac if configured properly, however.

1. Retail 32-bit PCM recordings (together with 48 and 64-bit ones) are very rare at the moment (though they do exist), since these are mostly interrim formats used during mastering to reduce quantization losses. DXD format music (352.8 / 384.0 kHz 24-bit with upto 6 channels) can be readily purchased however, though with very limited genres available. 192.0kHz 24-bit and lower are far more common, with 96.0kHz and 88.2kHz being the most popular. These PCM recordings often come in WMA, FLAC or WAV formats. The most prominent non-PCM competing format is DSDIFF, and comes in DSD64 and DSD128.

2. Asynchronous USB operation just tells you that the downstream devices do not sync to the USB clock. This normally results to lower jitter. Jitter is a timing problem, and may or may not be audible depending on how well your downstream digital components can tolerate it.

High resolution music over the internet is nothing new. It's been around for sometime now, but never really took off because people really didn't care about it (or most are not aware of its existence). I hope it eventually gets widespread market acceptance, as it'd be sad to see it end up like DVD-A or SACD.

I discovered this media in 2007, had stopped buying CDs by 2009 (for stuff that come in Studio Master versions), and had been a happy camper since.

lncc63 · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 09:02 AM »

Thanks for the reply Ivan. Please post links so I can check what material they have. I found a list of vendors HERE but am still going through them.

Why does the computer have to be powerful? It just does file retrieval. The DAC would do most of the work, right? How about NMTs?

Billabong · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 09:08 AM »

Also a Studio Master enthusiast here. Discovered it just a couple of months ago. The sound quality of Studio Masters are phenomenal. They are way better than CDs. There's no turning back once you go 24-Bit!

lncc63 · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 09:14 AM »

I wonder if there are OPM offerings? It would great if a local put up a website to sell OPM in Studio Master formats.

Another question: what are the symptoms of my netbook or NMT not being able to cope?

How about an E350 based HTPC? We have one but convenience won so it is used for browsing

.

Stagea · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 09:24 AM »

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 17, 2012 at 09:02 AM

Why does the computer have to be powerful? It just does file retrieval. The DAC would do most of the work, right? How about NMTs?

On the contrary, the PC does most of the work in this application. The DAC just converts the decoded stream to analogue.

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 17, 2012 at 09:14 AM

Another question: what are the symptoms of my netbook or NMT not being able to cope?

How about an E350 based HTPC? We have one but convenience won so it is used for browsing .

Slowdowns, stuttering, freezing, etc. are the usual symptoms.

Based on my experience, Brazos-based devices can cope up with 192/24. DXD is still a challenge for them, especially with more than 2 channels.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM »

Most NMTs cannot process 24bit resolution. And some optical transmitters cannot output 192khz sampling rate. I think sa HDMI, kaya. I use to play my music via NMT at 16bit.

I'm also a studio master enthusiast. There is quite a difference. Most noticable for me is in the mid-high to high region. It sounded more balanced to me. In my system, it's less harsh but very detailed. As for imaging and stage, there is quite an improvement though it would also be dependent on your analog system's ability.

Stagea · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 11:36 AM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Mar 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM

Most NMTs cannot process 24bit resolution. And some optical transmitters cannot output 192khz sampling rate. I think sa HDMI, kaya. I use to play my music via NMT at 16bit.

There are those that can do 24-bit, but they often cannot process above 48kHz (some can do 96kHz though). The reason for this is because there is no specific need for it, as most Blurays are mastered at 48/24 anyway (with a handful supporting 96/24). Most AV Receivers lose much processing ability when fed 192/24 anyway, because of DSP limitations.

lncc63 · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 11:58 AM »

Quote

On the contrary, the PC does most of the work in this application.

Had to put my thinking cap on ... is it because the PC does the decoding into a PCM stream which is what the DAC converts to analog?

Stagea · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM »

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 17, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Had to put my thinking cap on ... is it because the PC does the decoding into a PCM stream which is what the DAC converts to analog?

Yes, and the fact that it has to send the decoded morsels in a consistent and timely manner. It can't be busy with another task, as it'd miss the opportunity to send the next smidgen of information (causing a buffer underrun, and thus stuttering). This takes quite some resources to do properly, especially when you're doing it asynchronously.

lncc63 · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Mar 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM

I'm also a studio master enthusiast.

What kind of PC and DAC are you using Bro? Any recommendation for a best bang-for-buck PC/DAC combo? Actually, I'd like to avoid a PC because "appliances" are so much more convenient so please feel free to include bang-for-buck appliances that can handle Studio Master material.

Stagea · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM »

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Actually, I'd like to avoid a PC because "appliances" are so much more convenient so please feel free to include bang-for-buck appliances that can handle Studio Master material.

There are many music streamers/servers available in the market. Majority are capable of upto 96/24, and an increasing number are 192/24 capable.

For affordable 192/24 devices, Olive makes cost-effective and user-friendly solutions. Bryston makes a great-sounding player (if a bit slow to load and difficult to navigate), imho. Linn and Naim also have competing products that cost a bit more to implement.

For 96/24 devices, Marantz and Cambridge Audio are my picks for bang/buck.

lncc63 · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:10 PM »

Was trying to find out if the digital inputs of our HT AVR would accept a 24/192 stream. The specs mention, "192kHz/24-Bit DACs for All Channels" but this refers to the output stage. Any idea how I can tell?

Stagea · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:37 PM »

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:10 PM

Was trying to find out if the digital inputs of our HT AVR would accept a 24/192 stream. The specs mention, "192kHz/24-Bit DACs for All Channels" but this refers to the output stage. Any idea how I can tell?

Most receivers that can handle HD Audio should be able to do 192/24 over HDMI. The main downside being most of them disable processing when fed data at this resolution.

You may want to check out the Musiland at Marc's shop by next week. I heard a computer would be hooked up to it this coming week.

warmaster · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:38 PM »

how about physical discs of these master recordings, where can one acquire them from? can they be played on regular cd players or dvd players that can play sacd and dvd-a?

Stagea · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:41 PM »

Quote from: warmaster on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:38 PM

how about physical discs of these master recordings, where can one acquire them from? can they be played on regular cd players or dvd players that can play sacd and dvd-a?

It's not available natively at the moment, sorry. And no, SACD players could not play them unless you're playing SACDs (DSD64). DVD-A players might, if the files are converted to DVD-A format.

lncc63 · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:57 PM »

Quote from: Stagea on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:37 PM

Most receivers that can handle HD Audio should be able to do 192/24 over HDMI. The main downside being most of them disable processing when fed data at this resolution.

That's ok. I usually turn-off processing when listening to music.

Quote from: Stagea on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:37 PM

You may want to check out the Musiland at Marc's shop by next week. I heard a computer would be hooked up to it this coming week.

Rey said he'd text me when you guys have something setup. My office isn't far from there though I'm often out.

warmaster · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 02:19 PM »

Quote from: Stagea on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:41 PM

It's not available natively at the moment, sorry. And no, SACD players could not play them unless you're playing SACDs (DSD64). DVD-A players might, if the files are converted to DVD-A format.

so in order to play them properly one would need a beefy PC, a good NMT or a media streamer? Plus a loaded credit card to purchase them online. hehehe. thanks.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 06:43 PM »

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM

What kind of PC and DAC are you using Bro? Any recommendation for a best bang-for-buck PC/DAC combo? Actually, I'd like to avoid a PC because "appliances" are so much more convenient so please feel free to include bang-for-buck appliances that can handle Studio Master material.

You might want to consider this:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,159027.0.html

If it's appliance that your lookin for. Then this is it. May CDP ka na, may external DAC ka pa.

lncc63 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 08:33 PM »

Thanks for the offer Bro but no disposable income at the moment.

Billabong · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 10:06 PM »

Quote from: warmaster on Mar 17, 2012 at 02:19 PM

so in order to play them properly one would need a beefy PC, a good NMT or a media streamer? Plus a loaded credit card to purchase them online. hehehe. thanks.

A beefy PC is not required. AFAIK, any computer more powerful than a netbook will do the job. My 5 year old laptop has no problem playing Studio Master files and even 24-bit/352,800Hz DXD files.

Stagea · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 18, 2012 at 03:31 AM »

Quote from: Billabong on Mar 17, 2012 at 10:06 PM

A beefy PC is not required. AFAIK, any computer more powerful than a netbook will do the job. My 5 year old laptop has no problem playing Studio Master files and even 24-bit/352,800Hz DXD files.

I wouldn't say any, but most would as long as you manage the resources available.

lncc63 · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 18, 2012 at 04:09 AM »

Ivan, please recommend the minimum but capable dedicated PC setup. Since it would be dedicated, you can specify the software environment however you like ... wag lang command line. Of course bang-for-buck.

Might a customized dedicated netbook do?

Stagea · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 18, 2012 at 05:51 AM »

Quote from: lncc63 on Mar 18, 2012 at 04:09 AM

Ivan, please recommend the minimum but capable dedicated PC setup. Since it would be dedicated, you can specify the software environment however you like ... wag lang command line. Of course bang-for-buck.

Might a customized dedicated netbook do?

For reliable DXD playback, I suggest going for a dual core desktop/notebook processor (not a netbook/nettop processor). It can be a cheap build using a Celeron or an Athlon x2 processor. 2 GB of RAM is sufficient for this purpose (4 GB would be a comfortable spec), and I suggest running Windows 7 or Vista for file compatibility (especially for the WMA format Studio Masters). Also, running the drives in AHCI mode help significantly.

The higher Brazos-based netbooks/nettops (E350/E450) can often handle 192/24 if you disable visualizations, desktop effects, etc. (and sometimes even your antivirus) and don't do much else. Atom-based devices are at a disadvantage for this use, but will often handle 96/24 smoothly as-is (as long as it's not a low frequency single core model).

The fastest Atoms are less than a third of the pace of a current entry level processor, like the G530. That means utilization will most likely be fairly high during playback, and that is something that you would like to prevent when playing these files. High sampling rates mean that you get through so many thousand samples worth of data in ever shortening spans of time, so packet latency becomes critical. Your computer has to transfer more data and has to deliver it with lesser delays. I'm not saying that it's not doable with a stripped-down computer, but it might be a hassle in the long run.

I would truly encourage you to test it, if you would like to pursue that option. You can start by turning off Aero, indexing, and all the other fluff in windows and maxing out your buffer size. If you have a dual core Atom at least and are running AHCI, then you may be able to hack it (depending on the downstream gear that you're using).

If you're willing to forego compatibility with some files, a Linux-based build might be able to play high res files with a lower spec computer (most name-brand music servers and streamers rely on a VIA-based computer inside). The main downside being driver support for Linux is generally bad.