Author Topic: speaker wires (Read 107699 times)

CeeV · « **Reply #210 on:** Jul 10, 2009 at 01:45 AM »

Quote from: bass_nut on Mar 25, 2009 at 01:43 AM

i use 12 awg bare wire (no spade, no banana plug) 9 feet run per side... recommended by at least 3 ECE licensed friends... they are correct

Bro,

Share mo naman pls. ano daw ang philosophy or theory behind those 9ft./ run? does that apply only for 12AWG?

bass_nut · « **Reply #211 on:** Jul 10, 2009 at 02:30 AM »

Quote from: CeeV on Jul 10, 2009 at 01:45 AM

Bro,

Share mo naman pls. ano daw ang philosophy or theory behind those 9ft./ run? does that apply only for 12AWG?

my ECE friends advised me to use bare wires without banana plugs or spade as less connectors for better conduction... i needed 9 feet run per side as per my system's required cable length... 6 feet run bit short while 12 feet too long... i bought 12awg speakers wires/cables and these were ok as per my listen

alphalima · « **Reply #212 on:** Jul 23, 2009 at 07:57 PM »

hi to all master's of audio and video here;

need your opinion regarding speaker cables...

1. how does the cable size affect your system of listening or system of delivering sounds?
2. are the bigger wire the better?
3. can i use alternative wire in the hardware alike with same gauge?
4. what is the difference between speaker wire and electrical wire since they are both copper? coz
other's use royal cord and flat cords.
5. what is the cause of corrotion or oxidation (green inside the wire revolving the copper)in the speaker wire, any treatment for this?
6 different brand diffrent price for speaker cables, which is which? expensive the better?

thanks for your opinion master's
newbie lang po kasi...
more power to PDVD!!!

alphalima · « **Reply #213 on:** Jul 23, 2009 at 08:54 PM »

Quote from: iiinas on Jul 23, 2009 at 08:12 PM

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php?topic=76367.0

try this link, it has almost all the answers to your questions.

many thanks...

ninjababez® · « **Reply #214 on:** Aug 18, 2009 at 03:39 AM »

12 AWG or 12 gauge.
This speaker cable has a size of 0.0808 inches (2.053 mm) in diameter and has an area of 6.53 kcmil. It has a copper resistance of 5.211 Ohm/km. If you need a speaker wire connector to be more than 200 feet, it is recommended that you use this gauge of speaker wire. Reviews show that this is best to be used if you are installing a surround sound home theater system, or if you are going to install speakers that are going to run from one room to another. This type of speaker wire is harder to get covered though, so you'll most probably drill holes in your wall to facilitate it.

14 AWG or 14 gauge.
This speaker cable has a size of 0.0641 inches (1.628 mm) in diameter and has an area of 4.11 kcmil. It has a copper resistance of 8.286 Ohm/km. If the distance from your speaker to your amplifier is from 80 to 200 feet, it is recommended that you use this gauge of speaker wire.

16 AWG or 16 gauge. This speaker cable has a size of 0.0508 inches (1.291 mm) in diameter and has an area of 2.58 kcmil. It has a copper resistance of 13.17 ohm/km. This gauge of speaker wire is recommended to use if the distance from your speaker to your amplifier is less than 80 feet.

got information from howtodothings.com
is this accurate?

markcrenz · « **Reply #215 on:** Aug 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM »

yes those are good recommendations. if you understand the principles of electricity you will know that using a 12 gauge wire for a 10 ft run is an overkill. you will get negligible benefits and more difficult installation if you opt to use larger wire sizes.

Stagea · « **Reply #216 on:** Aug 28, 2009 at 07:37 AM »

Agree. You will notice that the wires inside amps connecting to the speaker terminals are even much thinner (since they're short).

ninjababez® · « **Reply #217 on:** Aug 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM »

thanks guys, atleast my 14gauge is more than enough for my setup

atleast i wont worry about my wires anymore

romymartinez · « **Reply #218 on:** Sep 08, 2009 at 09:11 AM »

Quote from: edwin on Mar 29, 2009 at 03:55 PM

The cheapest good speakercable i could recommend is from Belden. I am not sure if these are available dyan sa Pinas.

Belden 5T00UP - 10 AWG, 2 Conductor
Stranding: 65x28
Conductor Material:Bare High-Conductivity ETP Copper
Insulation Material: PVC - Polyvinyl Chloride
Outer Jacket Material: PVC - Polyvinyl Chloride
NEC/(UL) Specification: CL2 (Audio Use Only)
Nom. Capacitance @ 1 KHz: 26 pF/ft
DC Resistance: 1.03 Ohms/1000 ft

Belden 5000UE - 12 AWG, 2 Conductor
Stranding: 19x25
Conductor Material: BC - Bare Copper
Insulation Material: PVC - Polyvinyl Chloride
Outer Jacket Material: PVC - Polyvinyl Chloride
NEC/(UL) Specification: CL3R, FPLR
Nom. Capacitance @ 1 KHz: 33.5 pF/ft
DC Resistance: 1.6 Ohms/1000 ft

Last Saturday I got Belden 5000UP at P200/m from Sytec

http://www.sytec.com.ph/Common/Products.aspx

bass_nut · « **Reply #219 on:** Sep 09, 2009 at 11:50 PM »

thanks for the info sir Romy... will hunt for those 12/2 awg Belden wires/cables

romymartinez · « **Reply #220 on:** Sep 10, 2009 at 10:59 AM »

Quote from: bass_nut on Sep 09, 2009 at 11:50 PM

thanks for the info sir Romy... will hunt for those 12/2 awg Belden wires/cables

Hi Sir Fer,

OT: Also got from Sytec some Belden 1694A for P200/m and Belden 89259 for P450/m for DIY IC. The Belden 1694A though is cheater at 5th Avenuie (P173/m less friendly discount pa).

Sytec is also selling power cord at P900/m (forgot the model number).

bass_nut · « **Reply #221 on:** Sep 10, 2009 at 11:18 AM »

tons of thanks sir Romy for the lead ... will try to grab some of these on my next trip to Manila/Makati

oweidah · « **Reply #222 on:** Sep 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM »

Quote from: romymartinez on Sep 10, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Hi Sir Fer,

Sytec is also selling power cord at P900/m (forgot the model number).

hi romy,

pa-quote ng post mo kay doc fer.

pwede malaman if belden din ang power cord ng sytec? eto ba yun sa may wilson st./greenhills sanjuan?
tnx & regards

romymartinez · « **Reply #223 on:** Sep 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM »

Quote from: ojof00l on Sep 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM

hi romy,

pa-quote ng post mo kay doc fer.

pwede malaman if belden din ang power cord ng sytec? eto ba yun sa may wilson st./greenhills sanjuan?
tnx & regards

Hi Sir Rene,

Yes, Belden 3 wire 12awg. Paki check na lang sa website yung exact model number. Yes malapit sa Wilson. Nasa website yung exact address at contact number.

edwin · « **Reply #224 on:** Sep 11, 2009 at 08:35 AM »

Try to see if they have the Belden 83802 (2 wire) or the 83803 (3 wire) power cable.
They are quite stiff and is quite hard to bend for short lengths of 1 meter. They need long break-in. The sound is quite neutral in it's presentation with a firm grip in the bass.

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/diyMains/

These are the best belden power cable i could recommend. These are the same power cable used in constructing the Ven Hause flavor 1, 2 & 3 powercord.

http://www.vhaudio.com/powercables.html

ATJr. · « **Reply #225 on:** Sep 11, 2009 at 09:56 AM »

Quote

1. how does the cable size affect your system of listening or system of delivering sounds?

the size of your room, the power capacity of your amp, the speakers you use, your listening habits, they are more important factors than cable size alone.

Quote

2. are the bigger wire the better?

no........ your speakers' voice coils use anywhere from gauge 30 to 24 copper wires and will be longer than your speaker cables.....perhaps if you have a subwoofer that uses gauge 18 in the voice coil, then you would not use anything lower than a gauge 18, would you?

Quote

3. can i use alternative wire in the hardware alike with same gauge?

yes, by all means....speaker cables need not be expensive for you to enjoy the sounds...

Quote

4. what is the difference between speaker wire and electrical wire since they are both copper? coz
other's use royal cord and flat cords.

nothing basically, yes they are of both copper, and plastic insulations.....

Quote

5. what is the cause of corrotion or oxidation (green inside the wire revolving the copper)in the speaker wire, any treatment for this?

copper reacts with oxygen which is present in air, causing this green colored oxidation, silver plating the copper wires is the ussual method of preventing such corrosions.

Quote

6 different brand diffrent price for speaker cables, which is which? expensive the better?

depends on how deep your pocket is, if i buy an amp, that costs say 500k, then i wouldn't buy a cable that cost less than 10k for example....now if i buy an amp for say 5k, would you expect me to buy that 10k cable?, hell no...

this is a hobby where there are no single thruths, it is all in your ears, and that whatever makes you happy, then go for it......

alphalima · « **Reply #226 on:** Sep 11, 2009 at 10:32 AM »

thanks, folks, now my knowledge in speaker wire has braoden up, so its not the brand or the price your using unless it is a copper wire. it means you can use those royal cords or flats cords in the hardware.

kaya pala yung mga iba na nag set up sa mga mall pag may event royal cord ang gamit... when you see if theres an event try to sneak the wire.... to see is to believe!

edwin · « **Reply #227 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 09:44 AM »

1. how does the cable size affect your system of listening or system of delivering sounds?
For me it depends on the design of the speaker cable. Flat cables like, Nordost and Goertz, although both flat, will sound different because of the difference in their cable charateristics, capacitance, impedance, etc. Also both are using different cable materials.

2. are the bigger wire the better?
Not really, as it still boils down to the design and materials used.

3. can i use alternative wire in the hardware alike with same gauge?
Get at least a cable with an oxygen free copper. Impurities on the cable will make the sound of the cable harsh.

4. what is the difference between speaker wire and electrical wire since they are both copper? coz
other's use royal cord and flat cords.
Again, it differs in the material used. Not all copper are the same. The purer the copper, the smoother the sound. Same with the insulation, teflon is better and air is the best..

5. what is the cause of corrotion or oxidation (green inside the wire revolving the copper)in the speaker wire, any treatment for this?
It is the reaction of the copper with air. To prevent this, there are some contact cleaners or cable conditioners, like pro gold, that could retard this reaction..

6 different brand diffrent price for speaker cables, which is which? expensive the better?
Not always the case, as it is just a matter of matching a specific cable that could work well with your set-up..

markcrenz · « **Reply #228 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 11:59 AM »

Very authoritative ang reply ni sir Tony. This is my take on the subject:

When it comes to speaker wires it’s not necessarily bigger is better. You just have to match the minimum cable size with the speaker power handling. If you choose a much thicker wire the law of diminishing returns apply. Also note that a 100-watt 4-ohm speaker will need thicker wires than a 100-watt 8-ohm speaker since the 4-ohm speaker will carry a greater amount of current.

Don't worry about the capacitance running in picofarads or even nanofarads per foot, the effects on the frequency response are much higher than humans can hear. But if your speakers are a few kilometers from your amp your wires may shave some decibels off your tweeters.

Avoid those wires with thin conductors and very thick insulators. You ought to be paying for the copper not the pvc or plastic!

The difference in resistance between copper wire and oxygen free copper wire is too small to be significant for speaker wiring.

If your speaker wires have already oxidized wire then it is of very poor quality or have been exposed to humidity. Better to replace it. When buying wires check the strands, they should be tightly packed within the insulation. Loosely stranded wires have more air space within and are more prone to oxidation.

if you want to learn more about speaker wires, here's a good site:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

edwin · « **Reply #229 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 12:36 PM »

Don't worry about the capacitance running in picofarads or even nanofarads per foot, the effects on the frequency response are much higher than humans can hear. But if your speakers are a few kilometers from your amp your wires may shave some decibels off your tweeters.

Be careful though as the Goertz speaker cable could upset some amplifiers due to oscillation. It will not matter if your speaker or amp has a Zobel network though.

Goertz

Normal cables

The difference in resistance between copper wire and oxygen free copper wire is too small to be significant for speaker wiring.

I think this will depend on how transparent your system is. I had experience this everytime i change the poor quality internal wires of speakers i upgrade to UPOCC solid core wires.

If your speaker wires have already oxidized wire then it is of very poor quality or have been exposed to humidity. Better to replace it. When buying wires check the strands, they should be tightly packed within the insulation. Loosely stranded wires have more air space within and are more prone to oxidation.

This is true, replace once you saw oxidation as it will affect the cables performance. Oxidized copper is a very poor conductor unlike oxidezed silver. That is why, all our connectors, should be cleaned every now and then to improve it's connectivity.

Just my 2 cents.

markcrenz · « **Reply #230 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 02:24 PM »

The difference in resistance between 99.9% copper wire and 99.99% oxygen free copper wire is too small to be significant for speaker wiring.

The difference in resistance between poor quality copper wire and Ultra Pure - Ohno Continuous Casting (UPOCC) wire , with 99.9997% copper purity and better grain structure among other things, is indeed significant.

Wouldn't it?

edwin · « **Reply #231 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 02:51 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Sep 12, 2009 at 02:24 PM

The difference in resistance between 99.9% copper wire and 99.99% oxygen free copper wire is too small to be significant for speaker wiring.

The difference in resistance between poor quality copper wire and Ultra Pure - Ohno Continuous Casting (UPOCC) wire , with 99.9997% copper purity and better grain structure among other things, is indeed significant.

Wouldn't it?

Yes it could be true.

Sometimes numbers doesn't say it all but the ear of the listener.

ATJr. · « **Reply #232 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 04:53 PM »

@all,

my unsolicited advise, do not form beliefs about cables, there is nothing on these cables but copper conductors and plastic insulation.

oxygen content has been mentioned often times, but what is the ordinary layman to understand about it? how do we know the oxygen content of a cable? how sure are we that we are really getting what we paid for?

consumers are bombarded with all sorts of marketing hypes, and who is to know better? how are these unwitting consumers to be protected from these predatory vendors of cables?

so if you ask me, i would choose a Phelps Dodge brand cable over other brands, and yes, those orange colored, "fire retardant" round cables from singapore are good to use as speaker cables...

use what ever suits your ears....and your wallet....

ATJr. · « **Reply #233 on:** Sep 12, 2009 at 05:22 PM »

Quote

Oxidized copper is a very poor conductor unlike oxidezed silver.

it is only the surface of the copper conductor that gets tarnished, tinning them or soldering helps...
silver, unlike copper does not tarnish as easily, that is why they are used as plating material for copper wires...

edwin · « **Reply #234 on:** Sep 13, 2009 at 12:33 AM »

Quote from: TonyT on Sep 12, 2009 at 05:22 PM

it is only the surface of the copper conductor that gets tarnished, tinning them or soldering helps...
silver, unlike copper does not tarnish as easily, that is why they are used as plating material for copper wires...

Normal plating material used for copper is gold. Silver is more seldom used. Tinning copper will help to avoid tarnish but it is still a big difference compared to a clean and bare copper contact.

Cjtjader · « **Reply #235 on:** Sep 13, 2009 at 11:12 PM »

The lower the Ohm, the longer the length, the thicker the wire you need!

Just my two cents......!

despiopat · « **Reply #236 on:** Sep 18, 2009 at 08:15 AM »

Hi everyone. I'm having a new room constructed in our house to become a home theater. The contractor said they can embed the speaker wires before they start with the finishing. I need to supply them with the speaker wires, but I am a newbie when it comes to home theaters on have no idea at all what type of wire is needed for a basic surround sound system - 5 wall-mounted speakers and 1 subwoofer.

I have been getting different info from the electrician, hardware and some friends I know. Hope I can get some inputs here on what type of wire to buy and where I can buy.

Thanks in advance!

iiinas · « **Reply #237 on:** Sep 18, 2009 at 08:18 AM »

Quote from: despiopat on Sep 18, 2009 at 08:15 AM

Hi everyone. I'm having a new room constructed in our house to become a home theater. The contractor said they can embed the speaker wires before they start with the finishing. I need to supply them with the speaker wires, but I am a newbie when it comes to home theaters on have no idea at all what type of wire is needed for a basic surround sound system - 5 wall-mounted speakers and 1 subwoofer.

I have been getting different info from the electrician, hardware and some friends I know. Hope I can get some inputs here on what type of wire to buy and where I can buy.

Thanks in advance!

beldens are ok already.

gauge 14-16 will be ok for your set up. although some may recommend gauge 12 wires.

despiopat · « **Reply #238 on:** Sep 18, 2009 at 11:52 AM »

Quote from: iiinas on Sep 18, 2009 at 08:18 AM

beldens are ok already.

gauge 14-16 will be ok for your set up. although some may recommend gauge 12 wires.

thanks. where can i buy beldens?

oweidah · « **Reply #239 on:** Sep 18, 2009 at 11:58 AM »

Quote from: TonyT on Sep 12, 2009 at 04:53 PM

@all,

my unsolicited advise, do not form beliefs about cables, there is nothing on these cables but copper conductors and plastic insulation.

oxygen content has been mentioned often times, but what is the ordinary layman to understand about it? how do we know the oxygen content of a cable? how sure are we that we are really getting what we paid for?
javascript:void(0);
consumers are bombarded with all sorts of marketing hypes, and who is to know better? how are these unwitting consumers to be protected from these predatory vendors of cables?

so if you ask me, i would choose a Phelps Dodge brand cable over other brands, and yes, those orange colored, "fire retardant" round cables from singapore are good to use as speaker cables...

use what ever suits your ears....and your wallet....

to each his own; different folks, different strokes

amen